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Recall was 100 percent, now 0 percent

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Yesterday Riven highly surprised me. We went outside and she's been very good about coming when called, however yesterday she decided that she knew better and took off. :rolleyes: We got her FINALLY a block away!!!!!!!! Her recall has been 100 percent!! Then she pulls a stunt like this. I had to get the car and drive over to her just to catch her. You can always get her if she thinks you're leaving without her. I was extremely upset, I couldnt even speak to her. I just opened the door, she got in and I clipped the leash and that was that.

 

I feel like now all the recall she was good at went down the toilet and Im starting over. It was like the first night we had her when she just freakin took off and you'd get close and she'd run again. I just couldnt believe it. So back to NILF and bein strict I guess. I guess we were lax or something and didnt realize. I mean, its my fault she didnt listen, Im obviously doing something wrong or she would have. There was NOTHING to chase but she had to get her sniffies in, it was like imperative that she sniffed everywhere in the neighbors yards.

 

Im just really frustrated with her. She's been doing so good. :D

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I can't remember how old Riven is, but perhaps she's finally a teenager?

 

River has become less responsive on her commands (sit, down, etc) unless of course I'm holding a ball. And she has decided it's ok to poop in the house again. I too was lax and felt confident that my dog's manners were rock solid.

 

Back to crating and basic obedience reviews everyday now. She's almost a year and a half old.

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I can't remember how old Riven is, but perhaps she's finally a teenager?

 

River has become less responsive on her commands (sit, down, etc) unless of course I'm holding a ball. And she has decided it's ok to poop in the house again. I too was lax and felt confident that my dog's manners were rock solid.

 

Back to crating and basic obedience reviews everyday now. She's almost a year and a half old.

 

 

Riven is as the vet said "around 2" lol. I completely hear you in being too lax and confident. I just hate that feeling like Im hounding her and on her constantly. I mean, she knows what is expected, she just isnt doing it, so I have to be the bigger "bitch" (lol) and keep her in check. Is it going to be like this our whole lives together? Or at some point can I ever be confident that she'll behave?

 

I noticed her listening really going down hill the last week. I finally taught her speak by letting her bark at people outside our window. Could that have something to do with it? That was the only time ever that she'd bark, and so I just used it for teachign speak. Could that be a horrible mistake?

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That's too bad that this happened. Tiga goes through spurts of it and I swear it's only to me. My SO says it's because he hears my voice too much because I'm always harping on him. :rolleyes::D He definitely listens to my SO better. I wish I had more advice, but all I have is sympathy. lol.

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I really wouldn't beat yourself up too much over this. Many dogs will have 'brain farts' (hope that isn't too rude in US English - Eileen, please feel free to tell me) occasionally - even when they're way old enough to 'know better'. Just think of it as a training opportunity, and for a while at least, put Riven on a long line when she's in that sort of situation, so that she still has independence, but you can keep her safe. And maybe spend a bit more time just at the moment on recall training.

 

I personally wouldn't think that you're back at square one - maybe just that you might need to manage some situations. For example, my 5 year old Kirra still can't be trusted not to try to chase cars when we're walking on some roads - so she gets walked with her tracking harness on - and I try to remember to do some more work with her about this.

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There are no setbacks in Dogland, just opportunities to learn.

 

Don't sweat it. She's not scheming to take over the household - she's just slowing taking advantage of liberties you've been allowing her. You just have to remind her that you are taking her privileges away.

 

Take this opportunity to reteach the recall in a new way. I don't mean, a new command word, but putting new life into the old command. It doesn't matter how - there's lots of good books and stuff online (I've heard good things about Really Reliable Recall). The point is that it will give you more confidence again to call the shots.

 

Don't be tempted to look for some magic. Developing a good trusting relationship with a dog takes a lot of time and it also takes a lot of episodes of dealing with what you don't like, and making sure what you do like is amply rewarded. You also have to learn how to set up situations so your dog CAN be wrong safely and learn what you expect. In the case of recalls, practicing the basics inside, then outside in fenced areas, then using very light check cords - and always remember to go back to the beginning when proofing in a new area - don't let your dog get 300 feet away the first time you try off leash outside a fence! Ask for a recall ten feet away. Then thirty, fifty, one hundred.

 

Good luck!

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These dogs are our kids and every so often they need a good swift kick in the rear when they do stuff. that we don't want the to do like running or nipping at little ones of think back to when you were a kid what happen to you when you did something wrong. hell i remeber getting hit over the head with a wallet in a hardware store when my dad messed up writing a check. i think that we all can learn and teach from our pasts with our dogs it has worked so far with abby and i hope it will work on the new pup coming soon sometime we need to treat them like they are these dogs are smarter than most kids i know right now at there age !!!

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We felt like she does SO good indoors and she's come so far. But, we forget that we really cant trust her outside. We dont have that connection or something with her. The problem is that we really dont socialize her either. We know no one with dogs here. The closest person I know with dogs is Jodi and Bo Peep in Boise lol. Thats an hour away. Our old dog trainer has dogs but she charges to socialize! lol. Its just that I dont know how to make her listen when there are so many other distractions. Inside her recall is flawless, outside most of the time it is. Obviously not all the time because of last night. It was without a doubt that she CHOSE not to listen. She knew what we wanted.

 

Thanks for the encouragement, we need it. It really disappointed and discouraged us.

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Do you guys have a kennel or a dog daycare around? Our kennel here in town offers a doggie daycare where they let all the dogs play together and stuff. That might work if she's good around other dogs. I'm think of doing that with my Black Jack. He needs some doggie buddys, since no one from here is close enough :rolleyes:

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Do you guys have a kennel or a dog daycare around? Our kennel here in town offers a doggie daycare where they let all the dogs play together and stuff. That might work if she's good around other dogs. I'm think of doing that with my Black Jack. He needs some doggie buddys, since no one from here is close enough :rolleyes:

 

You know they actually do have a daycare here. I was just concerned that other dogs bad behavior would be taken on. Im wondering if that is really a concern thats validated at all.

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I agree with everyone that this is typical and to try and go easy on yourself.

 

My dog's definition of recall is this: As I RECALL, I have trotted to the back door reliably now for 25 times after finishing a game of ball in the back yard , therefore, on the 26th time, I will run two houses away and start sniffing their rosebushes. :rolleyes:

 

So off to square one we go. She tests. tests. tests. How far away can I drop the toy before Charlene re-trains me on "closer"? If I turn my head and don't make eye contact, will I REALLY have to stay in a "down stay"? She evaluates me all day with the attention to detail of a doggy psychologist..is Charlene tired? distracted? Every imperceptible movement I make is examined and evaluated. If I am lax for even one session with her, she often remembers and takes advantage at the next session.

 

This is why I love my dog. This is also why that while working with her is a joy, I always have to keep in mind that she is an animal who is VERY aware of everything around her, and thinking about it, assessing it, and bringing it into her realm of learning about the world. And yes, she is so different with how she acts with others. Not that we don't have loads of fun together, but our relationship is more intense and serious because I do feel like I am the one who does the real training.

 

 

Charlene

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Wow Riven and your dog sound so similar!!!! She waits a lot of times till Im distracted on the computer to get up and block the cat from walking to me, or waiting till I fall asleep to jump on the bed ect. I guess I just need to focus more.

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I was just about to write a post about training vs. dog personality because I have been grappeling with Meg's capriciousness feeling like I'm a complete failure as a BC owner but doubting the truth of that.

 

I'll write that post another time, for now I'd caution you to question your expectations of an unchanging behavioral pattern in yours or any dog over its development - dogs may not be as complex as humans, but they do have an internal life. I'd even question the equality of results from one BC to another - they do have distinctive personality differences that all of our efforts to 'neutralize' or 'guard against my resist.

 

More importantly perhaps, I'd try to remember that you are just human and however BC, Riven is just a dog. If we stop expecting perfection from either of us, and prepare for 'mistakes'....long leashes when they are out etc, perhaps both parties can live a relaxed life. This may not be a popular opinion, and it may not be right, but its the only way that I can see forward to a joyful future with my particular little bundle of self-involvement. Maybe it will help you.

 

Don't let your frustration get in the way of love, Riven doesn't. :D

 

Im just really frustrated with her. She's been doing so good. :rolleyes:

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LOL its funny you say that about not letting it get in the way of love. I couldnt be mad at her. 5 minutes after we brought her back in I was feeling bad for ignoring her. Then I wonder is that the problem? Am I a pushover lol :rolleyes: Her eyes are just to dang cute!! lol

 

But I do appreciate so much all the advice. Its great to hear other stories and encouragement.

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I second the suggestion to check out Leslie Nelson's Really Reliable Recall. You can buy it in DVD form or book form, and if you're on a budget, the book is pretty cheap. If you don't have a penny to your name, here are some pretty good instructions from Shirley Chong.

 

There are not just two levels of recall (inside and outside), there are an infinite number. There is recall inside a fenced area, recall when there is food on the ground, recall when another dog is playing nearby, etc. If you want a dog who will come every time in every situation, you have to build up to that. In the meantime, your dog stays on leash in the situations they're not yet ready for. I speak from experience :rolleyes:

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Hi there!

I feel bad for you. Do not beat yourself up however. That is the nature of the beast, plain and simple. And the fact that she has had this behavior in the past, if I read your post right, just simply means that it was going to show up again at some point. Wether it had to do with you giving her more freedom, a familiar smell, a brain freeze, doesn't really matter!

Irene is right, it is just one more opportunity for training. Here is my view on why we train. All we are doing is attempting to put the odds in our favor. Good of bad behaviors exist. No animal will ever bee trained without some bad (unwanted behaviors) showing up or rearing its ugly head. Even if it is just the animal realising that they at times can get away with something. A careless "come" in the house just to give them a pet that is not followed on the first time just taught the dog that it is not an absolute. But no one can be absolute! So don't beat yourself up over it.

 

Once a behavior is there you can recondition them. Part of training. But truth of the matter is (and I am not a pessimist) that it will always exist. At times we can bury the old behavior so deep under new behavior (more desirable ones) that it will not show up again but there will always be a trigger that can make it come back up. Which is why proofing a trained behavior in all different settings and wilh many different approaches is sooooo important to me. That in the end, we still have the control and can override somthing the animal is about to do just because they respect us. Not only because they want to. Because again it is the nature of the beast to at times simply not want to! :D Part of my training is (and to me of course it is horses) that I want an animal to be able to make a choice. So during the basic training it is my responsibility to show what it is that I want and when I want it. As the training progresses, it becomes about choices. "Yes" I liked it or "No" try again or "Heck No" don't ever do it again become part of the program. Only after I know for sure they are capable (which to me means they understand the whole idea) and I am sure that they trust me does it move to that dimension. The "punishment" will fit the "crime". Execute what I asked gets a reward, just make an attempt there will be a correction, totaly and completly blow me off will ilicit a different correction. Once they move through that phase I ususally end up with a "partner" that will still at times make the wrong choice, maybe because I asked wrong, but will also not worry about me acting accodingly. Kind of like a friend telling you that you where way out of line but they are still your friends. Truth is that coming from someone that you respect - it means a lot more. And of course I know that animals are not like people and have some restrictions as to their problem solving skills but as a good trainer it is my job to know that and present the issues at hand in a matter that they can figure out. Knowing breeds confidence and I find that to be just as important in an animal as it does in people. This is one of the reasons why I love clicker training! But I am not a purist by any means. The breakdown of problems that the clicker training requires is one of the things that makes it so wonderful.

 

Well I better quit before I get boring and off on a subject that I could talk and write about for hours.... :D

And of course this is just my opionion and supposed to help you not beat yourself up but to use the frustration in a positive way and to continue to learn. Be frustrated for 5 minutes, get it out of your system and find out more things and back to training!

PS: I had a dog that had a 99% recall guaranteed! The 1% percent came when he knew I would be leaving for a little while and he would have to be put up in a horsestall for a few hours. That did not happen but maybe once a year but that one time a year I would do a lot of walking to catch his sorry behind and put him up. He just knew what I was up to the minute I would call his name! :rolleyes:

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Everyone else has given great advice. I just wanted to say that I TOTALLY understand. Zoe is doing the same thing. she had a GREAT recall... not perfect (like someone else mentioned, when certain things were around - ie, Zeeke - it was a whole different ballgame but in the controlled, normal situation she was great) then she hit teenagerhood and started deciding she didn't need to listen. It is so frustrating!! Now Zoe's on leash until she re-learns that you can't disobey mommy and run off to follow squirrel scent trails in the woods.

 

I'm going to have to buy that book. I'm obviously doing something wrong too, and I'd like to fix it!

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Everyone else has given great advice. I just wanted to say that I TOTALLY understand. Zoe is doing the same thing. she had a GREAT recall... not perfect (like someone else mentioned, when certain things were around - ie, Zeeke - it was a whole different ballgame but in the controlled, normal situation she was great) then she hit teenagerhood and started deciding she didn't need to listen. It is so frustrating!! Now Zoe's on leash until she re-learns that you can't disobey mommy and run off to follow squirrel scent trails in the woods.

 

I'm going to have to buy that book. I'm obviously doing something wrong too, and I'd like to fix it!

 

I can SO relate to the different things around as to how she handles situations. My husband I love him but he is a huge issue here. He will tell her, riven come , come , come, come, come, and Im like tell her once then make her!! For fricks sake!! He will get mad cause I'll always get involved and then she'll do it. Its like then tell her to do something 1 time... ONCE, then get up and make her. Argh it just drives me insane!!! I know she would have come back if it was just me. But he was out there telling her first.

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Sorry about Riven's/your recall problem. I guess it is your problem since Riven doesn't seem to understand that she has a problem!!! Sounds like you have received a lot of good advice and now you have some work cut out for you.

 

On the subject of recall, one time I saw a demonstration of recall that amazed me. It was what I think a really excellent recall should look like.

 

I was on a hike in the mountains with my friend Rick and his dog, a Golden Retriever. We were almost at the summit and it was gently sloping terrain, covered by small flat rocks with almost no vegetation. We got to talking about dogs and training, and then Rick said "watch this!"

 

He put his thumb and index finger up to his mouth and whistled. The dog was 100 feet away, sniffing and snooping around in typical doggy fashion. Instantly the dog took off like a rocket, running straight at Rick. There wasn't a tenth of a second delay. As the dog got close he put on the brakes and slowed way down. He walked toward the right side of Rick, circled directly behind him, and stopped on Rick's left side. Then the dog went into a "sit" position, turned his head upward, and looked Rick straight in the eye. It was as if the dog was saying "okay, here I am, hope that was fast enough, what do you want me to do next???"

 

I was highly impressed. What a beautiful recall.

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Smiley, as others have mentioned, every dog is different and Riven is a typical teenager -- she's testing her wings. (I have a 14 yr. old two-legged walking stomach living at my house, so I know what I'm talking about :rolleyes: ). You've gotten a lot of great advice, just relax and perhaps try something new with her. Recall, as simple as it seems, is actually one of the most important dog training techniques and almost all dogs will test you, from time-to-time. Don't get discouraged, just try something different. You have done great things with her and she is very lucky to live at your house. I suspect she really hasn't forgotten, she's just trying to see what she can get away with.

 

Hector, I agree, an instantaneous recall like that is very impressive. I must say, we also do a pretty good recall around my house, too (maybe not quite as good as your friend, but pretty darn good). Allie tests the waters sometimes, but consistency pays off. Living right in the city with a BC, I do sometimes walk Allie "off-leash" late at night or early in the morning, so we do a lot of practice. Most my neighbors are pretty tolerant of the "off-leash" because Allie responds so well with her recall. I do have to add, that because Allie is also a teenager (not quite two), we have to practice, practice, practice. :D Hang in there!!!

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lol ok, so what do you guys recommend when she doesnt come. Lets say we're in house and we call her once and she doesnt come? I generally will go get her and lead her by the collar where I first called her. My hubby will call and call and call till either I call her or go get her. Is that right to physically go get her? What should I do in that case(the best way) to teach her ignoring isnt ok?

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You can use the leash in the house when you are practicing. If she doesn't come the first time, she gets "hauled" back with the lead. You can try treats, if she is food motivated. Praise, if she is not. Riven is a smart dog. She will figure it out. Don't keep calling, however. One time, she should come. If not, one more time in a warning tone. If she still doesn't come back, she gets hauled back and scolded. I suspect she really still knows the recall, she is just seeing what you will let her get away with.

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I agree w/ Deb, except for the scolding part. NEVER scold a dog for coming to you as then they may form the association that "coming to my person"= getting scolded = "I don't ever want to do that again". :rolleyes: I like doing lots of random recalls in the house and on walks personally and rewarding w/ a special treat for good responses.

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lol ok, so what do you guys recommend when she doesnt come. Lets say we're in house and we call her once and she doesnt come? I generally will go get her and lead her by the collar where I first called her. My hubby will call and call and call till either I call her or go get her. Is that right to physically go get her? What should I do in that case(the best way) to teach her ignoring isnt ok?

If you have any doubt at all that she's not going to come, do not use the command.

 

The first thing I train on all of my dogs (past and present) is recalls because we do not walk on the leash. They have to come to me instantly and with great speed in spite of any distraction because it's simply irresponsible of me to let them off of that leash in any situation where there is the possibility of danger. They are horrible for jumping on me when I come in the door (my fault lol) but two months ago, while walking at night and off-leash, when two deer jumped out of nowhere twenty feet ahead they were sitting at my side 0.6 seconds after I said "come". Yeah, they were barking, yeah, they wanted to chase those deer like there was no tomorrow, but they came and they stayed.

My point here is not to brag (which honestly I'm not, you should see me fight to keep these monsters from jumping on me lol - again my own fault :rolleyes: ). IME the critical factor of a solid recall is making the dog want to come to you. She has to think you're more exciting than whatever else is going on, and we all know what we're up against (cats and cars and bears, oh my).

 

This means no scolding, ever. You are asking this dog to do something that is, in essence, against their very natures and you should never ever scold them for not doing it, otherwise you will, as MaggieDog says, have a dog who associates that command with trouble. And no dog is going to want to come to you if they even slightly distrust the end results. Instead, they're going to want even more to chase after that car or that cat that just looks like so much fun. Seriously, which one would look more appealing to you? A good run or getting in trouble? Heck, if you start yelling her name and running backwards waving your arms around, she is probably going to think, hmmm she looks like she's having fun...and she'll likely start chasing you lol.

 

So, here's my suggestion:

Do you have a catch/release leash? If not, buy one. Then, have someone hold Riven by her collar, while you walk out to the end of the leash, facing her. Crouch down and do something to get her excited. Wave a toy around or say her name in a really high-pitched tone; make her want to get to you. (don't give the recall command while you're doing this) As soon as she starts jumping around trying to break free, have the person holding her release her. Say "Come" or "Here" loudly and back up as she runs towards you. When she gets to you, give her Lots of praise, make sure you say "Good Come/Here". And do it over, and over, and over again. Eventually, you can incorporate an off-leash recall, and in the future just use the recall command, but make sure you're still in a contained area.

After that (and prior to letting her off-leash in an open area) you're going to want to teach a sit stay directly after the recall (if you haven't already). No sense having a good recall if the dog just keeps on running right past you lol :D

 

And don't feel bad; BC's like to test their limits. Heck, I have an 8 year old who tries to play this little game while heeling where she waits until I'm not paying attention and drops back to cut behind me so she can go off and frolick lol. Training is not a stagnant thing and will always require reinforcement :D

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