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Devil in a puppy suit

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Let the pup swim. I wouldnt worry to much about him being obsessed. I had a dog like that, swimming was her passion. It was a great way to excercise her.

As far as the burrs are concerned, couldn't you just take Repo up to the pond without your other dogs? You said your other dogs didnt really need any changes, that they were ok with things like they are. He could probably use some one on one time with you anyway. Maybe you could work it out with your neighbors so that when you take repo up to the pond, your other dogs can run in the front yard.

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Colombia MO - have you just skipped all the posts about mental vs. physical stimulation?

 

Adding more "run around like a freak" time to your dogs already freakish schedule is not going to solve your problem. It just gets these wired dogs a little more crazy and a little more difficult to calm down.

 

You need to un-teach every self satisfying behavior that dog has taught himself. There is nothing wrong with walks on leash for a pup. Taking off the leash isn't going to help you much - it's just going to make your obedience training of this dog much more difficult as you WON'T be able to reinforce your commands.

 

Settle this pup by limiting his access to the world. Control his behavior by controlling his enviornment.

 

A marathon runner trains to run as long and as hard as they can. After running a mile for 4 weeks that mile becomes very easy and not tiring at all. Giving your dog more only builds his stamina and makes him NEED more in order to get tired.

 

Building a routine of down time in a crate with limited access to ANYTHING is how you train the off switch. NOT by letting the dog run like a mad-man off leash.

 

Denise

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Originally posted by BigD:

Building a routine of down time in a crate with limited access to ANYTHING is how you train the off switch. NOT by letting the dog run like a mad-man off leash.

 

Denise

I ordered a book and implemented parts of it and am still reading it...Ruff Love by Susan Garrett...an author that I believe the OP mentioned above. The concept is very similar to NILIF concept. I think pup just needs more structure to its life but not necessarily meaning a daily structured routine.

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Julie wrote:

 

>we should remember that the pup in question came from a puppy mill and in no way represents a well-bred working dog any more than Columbia's other dog does

 

You are totally wrong on both counts.

 

First of all, Repo definitely came from a puppy mill, but he is quite a well bred herding dog. Both his parents were bought from decent working stockdog breeders under false pretenses. With the help of ABCA, I tracked down these breeders, and they were shocked to find out that the person they sold them to had been a puppy miller--one actually burst into tears when he heard the news.

 

Repo's dam's breeder is a veterinarian here in town with two working dogs. The female (Repo's grandmother) was imported from Ireland. The male is the son of a multi- Open trial winner.

 

Repo's sire was bred by another Open level competitor in SW Missouri, and that dog's sire is a son of a dog named Job, another multi Open trial winner who was the foundation dog of my herding instructor. Repo is apparently a dead ringer for Job, both in looks and temperament.

 

I have no beef at all with his genetics, his working aptitude, etc. He is already VERY stylish and if I can get enough access to sheep, may even make a great Nursery dog. He does have a very glaring conformation fault in that he is very cowhocked and narrow in the rear, to the point that his hocks slam against each other when he moves. He is still very fast, and I do think that some degree of cowhocks adds to a faster turn, so I'm withholding judgement whether or not the cowhocks are a disability until he is old enough to do real work.

 

The "puppy mill" portion of Repo's background was the neglect: he was kept at a run-down place with 40 dogs running around, some caged, many loose, some dead and left in the yard, and a bunch of puppies covered with parasites and very anemic. Now that Repo is healthy, I certainly can't blame any part of his behavior on being from a puppy mill (in fact, he has a very friendly and outgoing temperament and is bombproof around noises or the "unexpected"). Repo is just a very exhuberant puppy with no off switch, and I have known many BCs just like him from both conformation lines and herding lines.

 

Lets all learn to treat dogs as individuals: Not "all conformation-lines dogs are lazy, slow, and crappy at herding" and "all herding dogs are fabulous workers, active and high maintenance." I know so many exceptions to both statements that I can tell you that there is no truth at all to either statement.

 

About my conformation dog, there are in fact various conformation titles available, including championships offered by nearly every developed country, international championships (from FCI), German style evaluations of conformation, not to mention AKC and UKC, which both have different requirements.

 

In addition, after a dog earns its AKC championship, many go on to be "specials," meaning they are shown against other champions to rack up points towards "Top 10 BC of 2005," or "Top Herding Group Dog" based on points earned in group wins, etc. These are not titles, as such, but are much craved by a small fraction of show people. Because I only show for fun, a spirit of competitiveness, and to make sure any prospective breeding dog has good structure, I got his AKC championship and stopped there.

 

In addition, you are also asking a lot for my dog--conformation bred or otherwise--to be doing Open level work when he is 3 yrs. old and has actually been in a pen with sheep or cattle about 80 times in his entire life, including trials. Since last November, he has had exactly six practice sessions (most 10 min. each), and still managed to compete at three USBCHA Novice trials, where he came in at the middle of the pack against a dozen or so dogs that all get to work daily.

 

The reason he is not winning Novice and going on to compete in Ranch is that he developed a new habit this spring of crossing over on his outrun to hold the sheep to the setout person. And no, that's not because he's a "show dog" but because he enjoys working for knowledgeable men more than for me... and he figures the setout guy at the other end looks a lot more sheep-savvy than I do! We are going to two clinics in the next month (Danny Shilling and Kathy Knox) in order to address this issue before we move up to Ranch.

 

By the way, you folks that are constantly dissing AKC herding trials have obviously never been to one, and it shows. I will definitely agree that the AKC A course is easy, but the AKC B course is identical in every way to USBCHA. AKC Started = USBCHA Novice, Intermediate = Pro-Novice/Ranch, Advanced = Open. Many AKC and USBCHA trials are held at the exact same venues, with the same sheep, same obstacles, same distances, same obstacle settings and same JUDGES. In fact, most or all of our AKC and AHBA judges so far have also been USBCHA judges.

 

By the way, the highest scoring American at the Internation Sheepdog Championships in Ireland this year was Robin Penland, who competed with two dogs that she bred and trained.

 

Robin's dogs are all AKC registered. She is both an AKC and USBCHA judge, and has two dogs in the USBCHA top rankings.

 

At the AKC Border Collie National Specialty this year, Robin was the show secretary in charge of.... conformation.

 

If the American that scored highest at the Internationals respects AKC conformation shows, I would hope that any lesser people in the herding world would also get off their high horses about the alledged "division" between show and herding dogs and treat each dog as an individual rather than a "first class" (i.e. herding bred) or "second class" citizen.

 

Columbia, MO

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I would like to know how you can assume the dogs you run against in Novice see sheep all the time?? My dog only sees sheep once a week?? I think that is a MIGHTY huge assumption you are making--unless you took the time and polled every participant??

 

AND--I will say this as I have seen it over and over again--there are dogs that are best for beginner herding people and then there are dogs that are best for experienced people. I have found that the "easier dogs" get out there and trial quicker with novice handlers..and might even win. Those dogs you don't have to hold the reins on. But I like the dogs you have to hold them down a notch. They are more of a handful, but when they are ready...watch out! So remember that when you are comparing dogs (although you shouldn't be according to your post). Just because a dog starts out pushy and close on stock and in a hurry--doesn't make it a bad dog.

 

The bottom line is this: Put the ego aside with the other BC, don't expect Repo to act like him, they are not the same dog. Don't blame it on their breeding whether he is herding/show/agilty whatever bred. When you do go to that Kathy Knox clinic..I am sure you will hear her "ego and pride" speech...take it to heart. There is no place for it in dog training.

 

Maybe you should talk to Kathy about his behaviour..I am sure she would tell you the same stuff all of us are saying...in fact I almost guarantee it As she has taught me everything I basically know about these dogs and how to handle them properly.

 

The BOTTOM LINE---You haven't held up your end of the deal in his training...start doing it.

 

Teach him an off switch, don't let him self reward, and work him mentally, not just physically---if he needs more work than your "other dogs" then so be it..step up to the plate and work the dog more. Don't look at it as a pain in the rear, look at this animal as a dog that NEEDS to herd...there is a difference between wants to herd really really badly and NEEDS to herd. A HUGE difference.

 

I don't care if the dog was a Yorkie....it is exhibiting boredom behaviour, and becoming OCD about EVERYTHING, I would never put up with that, right now my 2 are resting..one in the middle of the livingroom and my pup in her x-pen...QUIETLY.

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Originally posted by Columbia MO:

Repo is just a very exhuberant puppy with no off switch, and I have known many BCs just like him from both conformation lines and herding lines.

 

Columbia, MO

I think what you are missing here is that most dogs have been taught to have an "off-switch". Tess would go for hours if I let her as she has tremendous drive and energy; however, I do not tolerate constant activity...she needs a break and so do I.

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"First of all, Repo definitely came from a puppy mill, but he is quite a well bred herding dog. Both his parents were bought from decent working stockdog breeders under false pretenses. With the help of ABCA, I tracked down these breeders, and they were shocked to find out that the person they sold them to had been a puppy miller--one actually burst into tears when he heard the news."

 

Sharon, I think you're missing the point. Julie said, "we should remember that the pup in question came from a puppy mill and in no way represents a well-bred working dog any more than Columbia's other dog does."

 

It's fabulous that Repo's parents both come from working lines, and that one breeder cared so much that they burst into tears, but that's neither here nor there. The point is that Repo's breeder has never proven her dogs' working ability, and has no idea how one dog would compliment another as far as working ability is concerned. Just because a male dog and a female dog may have come out of nice lines does not automatically mean that breeding that male to that female will get a good result. Repo's breeder is clueless about a dog's working ability, and those litters were produced for money. So I think Julie's statement hit the nail on the head.

 

Jodi

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Rachel,

 

That is true--I had an ACD that was born with no off switch, too, but got one "trained in" later. At 7 weeks old, I had to walk the ACD 4 miles each morning (offleash on dirt hiking trails) just to take the edge off--he was sooooo athletic. Even Repo probably couldn't have kept up with that baby ACD! In fact, most 7 week old puppies I've known couldn't make it around a block very well without getting tired. :rolleyes:

 

I think the thing about Repo is that I was taken a bit off-guard by his energy level. When I started fostering him, he had come straight from puppy-mill life, where he likley had no exercise. He was loaded with internal & external parasites, coccidia and was very malnourished and anemic.

 

Right after his arrival, he slept most of the time or played a bit with my other dogs. He couldn't focus on clicker training sessions for more than about 2 minutes at first, which was very low for a 15 week old puppy, but understandable given his condition.

 

After a week or two, he could focus a bit longer for training, and learned to do a couple of easy things like sit/down. And he was able to take a walk of about 1/3 mile (equivalent to going around one city block)... though he would zonk out sound asleep right after we got home.

 

In fact, he even toppled over sound asleep sometimes after bringing me a ball a few times at the computer (which I ignored). He almost seemed to be narcoleptic a couple of times! So I had thought of him as a pretty low energy puppy.

 

But after all the parasites got cured and he got on some good chow, the REAL Repo came out. However, that didn't happen until just 8 weeks ago or so, at 5 months old. Because of his low energy before, I never bothered to work on a "settle" or on extended stays or anything you'd do with a typical high-energy puppy. So now I'm gonna get started.

 

We're having our first private lesson with my friend Betty tomorrow morning. She is a local OTCH trainer and BC owner.

 

However, other than bringing balls and dropping them all around me so many times every evening, Repo is great in the house. He is housetrained, totally non-destructive (the destruction is in the puppy room while I'm at work), makes eye contact and sits for everything (all the dogs are on NILIF), will not run through an open gate but waits for permission, and I can recall him away from people, other dogs, ducks, sheep, cars.... but apparently not the pond!

 

So the hooligan example I gave in my original post is not to say that he's a bad boy or trouble-maker normally. Just that he gets bored and needs more exercise... and that no matter how puppy-proofed you make a puppy room, there is always some puppy that can figure out how to knock 4' fluorescent bulbs down from the ceiling so he can take them out in the yard and bury them!

 

Columbia, MO

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I've been told very recently in herding training not make excuses for Keegan. I can see where this would hurt him in the end. I think you also need to stop making excuses for Repo.

 

We can all learn a little something from everyone on these boards and that is why we come here...to learn and talk amongst people we would like to call "friends". So I'll be glad when you can take something away from this thread and Repo becomes better for it.

 

You had told me in a recent post that all dogs are food motivated. I think that my dog is NOT food motivated but I took your advice and tried something very yummy last night for weave pole training and Keegan enthusically did the training for me. I also had to give him an easy command because he nibbled my fingers to death. You also said to take his normal feedings away and give food to him during training.

 

So take that same advice here and take your dog away from his comfortable time in the house where you might already have trained an "off-switch" and train him during a difficult time to have an "off-switch". Does that make sense?

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Jodi wrote:

 

> It's fabulous that Repo's parents both come from working lines .... Just because a male dog and a female dog may have come out of nice lines does not automatically mean that breeding that male to that female will get a good result.

 

I do agree that just because two dogs are good workers they will not produce a good worker. I have met numerous ABCA registered dogs that will not even look at sheep.

 

However, I guess there is a difference in opinions of the definition of "well bred."

 

You and Julie are seeing this phrase as referring to the qualities of the BREEDER and her intentions. Or in other words "bred by a knowledgeable breeder based on information on the working abilities, structure and temperaments of both parents." Which I agree is the goal that should be behind every breeding. (And I would strongly agree also that people from any registry should not be breeding BCs unless they have evidence of working ability, not merely "instinct").

 

I'm using "well bred" in the more common usage, in which I'm referring to the PRODUCT of the breeding--that is, the puppy--having good qualities. All I'm trying to say is that both Repo and my adult BC happen to have turned out to have great herding and sports abilities (or potential, in the case of Repo). That their abilities are somewhat unexpected is beside the point. I consider them "well bred" for herding because their various pairs of genes combined to make them both into dogs that have excelled or are likely to excel in both herding and a bunch of other sports. (Repo had his first herding lesson in an arena at the Ozark Empire Fair this month, and I had serious offers of trial people wanting to buy him due to his style and eye).

 

The fact that one was bred to be a conformation/sport dog and one was bred based on color (Repo's breeder priced puppies higher if they had unusual colors or ticking) doesn't negate the fact that they both turned out to be nice, "well bred" dogs. It just depends on whether you're definining well-bred by the breeder and her intentions, or by the final result--the dog--and his abilities.

 

So I can see your point, but wanted to explain what my definition was.

 

Columbia, MO

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Rachel wrote:

 

> take your dog away from his comfortable time in the house where you might already have trained an "off-switch" and train him during a difficult time to have an "off-switch". Does that make sense?

 

Yes! And thanks for letting me know that your dog finally responded to some food. What did you use that finally turned him into a little "shark"?

 

About training in the off-switch, you are right. I'm going to take your advice, using the method in Sue Garrett's new book. She basically uses NILIF even during training sessions. If Repo loves tunnels, I won't let him do a tunnel without first doing something like eye contact, 30 sec. stay, roll over, tug with me before entering the tunnel, etc. This is also what I'll do at the pond.

 

I have also started doing something else from her book which is to avoid creeping start lines. You have the puppy sit, do a lead out, then instead of saying "go!" you ask for other position changes, such as down, stand, back up, etc. Then you go back and reward with food or a tuggy. Is this the kind of off switch training you're talking about?

 

I also think I should start either crating Repo or tying him to a doorknob for 15 min. or so right after a training session, just so he learns to settle down when asked. Right now, he is at liberty all evening to bring me those 500 balls that I don't throw... and he's very distracting even when I try not to acknowledge him in any way!

 

Columbia, MO

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I have used cut up hotdogs with Tess but never thought to do the same with Keegan. Recently Tess was on medication for puppy acne and put it in hotdogs and would give Keegan a bite at the same time. He so attentive when I have a hot dog now. However, the real test is will he do this in front of the equipment at my agility instructor's?

 

In a way you are teaching control which is what I mean by the "off-switch" which is basically what you were saying above.

 

I would definitely crate him to give him a relaxation period of sorts during your down time. Tess learned to relax much better than Keegan. Keegan had a lot of time in his crate in order to learn to relax himself.

 

Good luck...and remember to stop making excuses, realize what the problem is because if you make excuses for it then you might overlook something. In your replies you have made excuses for his behavior such as he comes from strong herding lines. Well, my Tess comes from strong herding lines and she knows what I mean by "go lie down". Sometimes it is hard to admit we have made a mistake in our training.

 

Good luck.

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In addition, you are also asking a lot for my dog--conformation bred or otherwise--to be doing Open level work when he is 3 yrs. old and has actually been in a pen with sheep or cattle about 80 times in his entire life, including trials.
Hmmm, how old was Twist when you moved her to Open, Julie? And how many sheep did you have when you did that?

 

There's a dead horse here stinkin' up the place but I CANNOT let this pass unchallenged:

 

AKC Started = USBCHA Novice, Intermediate = Pro-Novice/Ranch, Advanced = Open. Many AKC and USBCHA trials are held at the exact same venues, with the same sheep, same obstacles, same distances, same obstacle settings and same JUDGES
AKC Started: "The Started class minimum outrun shall be 60 feet for ducks and 150 feet for sheep and cattle. The maximum outrun will be no more than 100 feet for ducks and 300 feet for sheep and cattle. "

 

I have seen AKC trials. Here, the minimum started outrun (50 yards) is usual and widely accepted. Typical novice course is 75 to 100 yards.

 

AKC Intermediate: "The Intermediate class minimum outrun shall be 75 feet for ducks and 300 feet for sheep and cattle. The maximum outrun shall be no more than 150 feet for ducks and 600 feet for sheep and cattle."

 

Again, the minimum is more usual than the maximum. The setout for Pronovice around here is typically between 150 to 250 yards. Already there is a substantial difference. Add to that the fact that the drive is assisted and there is little comparison even at this very basic level.

 

As to Open and Advanced being comparable!

 

"The Advanced class minimum outrun shall be 100 feet for ducks and 350 feet for sheep and cattle. The maximum outrun shall be no more than 150 feet for ducks and 1,200 feet for sheep and cattle. "

 

The usual distance for setout for USBCHA sanctioned Open courses are around 350 yards - it's much more in several notable trials where the Open dogs are expected to find their sheep at distances of 600 yards or more. But outrun distance is no complete test of a Border collie's abilities.

 

There are no rules in USBCHA Open for what kind of stock is to be used, or whether the dog should be able to see the setout around the entire outrun, or the shape or size of the field. Course directors may add additional obstacles at will, change around the tasks, or even change the shape of the usual course.

 

It's a totally different mindset - it's all about setting high standards rather than leveling the playing field so most dogs look good.

 

And yes, I know whereof I speak - I'm having an AHBA trial here this weekend with all courses - HTD is similiar to AKC - it offers more similiarities to the novice trials in fact - but the very fact that I can set it up in my little three acre paddock rather amuses me. I'll be full of admiration for the Shelties, Bouviers, Tervs, and Aussies that can run the full course - but to think that this - or any title-oriented venue - is a true test of a Border collie's full potential is laughable.

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>

 

Not true. I diss them all the time, and I've been to several.

 

>

 

Nonsense. The minimum outrun distance for Advanced B Course is 350 FEET (i.e., less than 120 yards). For Started B it is 150 FEET (50 yards). From what I've seen, very rarely does a course exceed the required minimum. The chief difference I've observed is in the sheep, which under AKC rules must be "dog broke," "reliably familiar with obstacles and their negotiation," and "pliable and maneuverable." In the trials I saw, they sure were! The concept of trying to make the sheep easy is foreign to USBCHA trialing.

 

>

 

A couple might be, but certainly not "many." Moreover, there simply aren't that many B Courses offered. The vast majority of AKC trials are A Course only.

 

>

 

Don't know what "our" refers to. Most AKC judges have never been near a USBCHA trial.

 

>

 

I assume you mean the World Trial, not the International. She did compete in the WT. She was certainly not the highest scoring American. According to the results posted on the World Trial site, she was not even close to being the highest-scoring American. She did not get through to the semi-finals.

 

>

 

Sadly, this is true. (Well, it's not true that she has any dogs in the USBCHA rankings at the moment, but I should think she will by the end of the year.) Fortunately, this is not typical, it is anomalous.

 

>

 

This is probably true also. I know of only two USBCHA Open handlers who engage in conformation, despite the obvious marketing incentive to do so, so this too is not typical.

 

>

 

Again, Robin is not the American that scored highest at the Internationals. Even if she were, it wouldn't change the fact that there is a manifest division between show and herding dogs. How can anyone dispute this?

 

I've said this before, but it bears saying again. It's easy to ascertain the truth or falsity of a statement like "Robin Penland scored highest at the Internationals." Other less-specific statements, or statements where the underlying information is not as accessible, are not so easily verifiable. This is something that should always be kept in mind in reading anonymous posts.

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I just want to thank Rebecca and Eileen for commenting on the differences between the AKC "B" course and a USBCHA trial much more eloquently than I could have. I've competed in AKC trials. In fact, if I was so inclined, my dog is ready for the advanced AKC "B" course, but I'll tell you ... we are nowhere NEAR ready for a USBCHA open trial. I'm sick to my stomach because I just entered him in his first ever pro-novice run that we don't have a shread of hope of winning. I'll be happy just to get through it without passing out.

 

And most of the differences mentioned were simply the length of the outrun. I don't think the AKC ever required a maltese cross or an International shed.

 

Jodi

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Columbia, MO,

 

If you want those of us who actually compete in USBCHA Open to believe your talk about what a great herding trial dog your conformation dog is, then all you need to do is move him to USBCHA Open, and place well consistently at the Bluegrass or Edgeworth or other equivalent top competitive trials. Just do it. Walk the walk.

 

I get so sick of people thinking their reasons/excuses for not competing at the top levels are good enough to lend them the same credit as the dog/handler teams who actually do go out and do it.

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Now, I am not making excuses for this Columbia person. But I am guessing that the majority of herding trials that she has seen have been at the Purina grounds. So, I guess that she might have seen both USBCHA and AKC herding trials held on the same field at Purina, and if so, maybe at the same distances for outruns. But like a number of people have pointed out, the majority of USBCHA trials have much longer outruns than the majority of AKC trials. And yes, the AKC trials have dog broke, course broke sheep. Most of the USBCHA trials don't have that and that is what proves the real herding dog. I was at a trial the 2nd weekend of October in WI with sheep that were not "broke" sheep. It was interesting to see which dogs could handle that and which couldn't. But I am rambling. I wanted to point out that the people who ran that trial purposedly do not let very many people come out to their place to work sheep because they DON'T want their sheep to be so dog broke.

 

I have one question for this Columbia person. If you dog is able to compete at the AKC Advanced B course level, then why didn't you run him at that Border Collie specialty that was just held at Purina earlier this month??

 

One other thing Columbia. You are very wrong in saying that you cannot train a dog on the Invisible fence until they are 6 months old. With the Safe Dog method they can be started as early as 3 - 4 months. With the newest method they can be started at 8 - 9 weeks of age. So, once again, another excuse used by you.

 

Kathy

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>

 

Good point, Jodi. At a USBCHA Open trial, you never know what might be thrown at you. Maltese cross, chutes, pull-throughs, natural obstacles, collared sheep shed, drive 'em up a rock face -- earlier this month I went to a trial that turned out to be a double lift. Nearly always the course is different on Sunday than it was on Saturday. In AKC Course B, OTOH, the course is always the same, right down to the direction of the turn around the post -- you only have a left-hand drive, never a right-hand drive!

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Originally posted by Eileen Stein:

[QB]

<< By the way, the highest scoring American at the Internation Sheepdog Championships in Ireland this year was Robin Penland, who competed with two dogs that she bred and trained. >>

 

I assume you mean the World Trial, not the International. She did compete in the WT.

 

 

sorry to hijack this thread, but where can i find details of the world trials, and anything else for that matter!

i only ask as i went to the international sheepdog trials in hereford this year, i didnt know there was a world trial!! i missed out!

this year was ther first year i was able to go to the international, the set up was awsome, the sheep were so far away i could hardly see them or the dog! a bit different to all the trials i have been to in cornwall and devon!

if anyone could post a link or something i would be most gratefull.

love

donna

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One other thing Columbia. You are very wrong in saying that you cannot train a dog on the Invisible fence until they are 6 months old. With the Safe Dog method they can be started as early as 3 - 4 months. With the newest method they can be started at 8 - 9 weeks of age. So, once again, another excuse used by you.
Well perhaps they didn't know of the new methods? I'm guessing when she trained her other dogs for the invisible fence it was a good while ago. I wouldn't jump to conclusions about it being an "excuse."

 

It seems to me that this owner has done a LOT to try to deal with her dog. Maybe all you people who have working-bred "true" border collies see this dog as expected, but she sure didn't. She'd had border collies before, had a JRT, she THOUGHT she knew what she was getting into. She was wrong, obviously, and now she knows. But I don't think it serves any purpose to continually point out that her other BC isn't a "true" BC and whether or not she SHOULD have anticipated these problems.

 

Some owners would have dumped the dog, and of those who didn't, I don't think many would have put out the amount of effort she has in trying to keep this dog occupied and happy. She's probably doing all the wrong things - it's been pointed out. Well good thing she's at this forum to learn new methods! But it appears she has her dogs' welfare foremost in mind, and she's willing to try.

 

(And I'm not at all commenting on the debate between herding trial types, or the comments arising from it.)

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>

 

Dumped him? Never! They would just have accepted one of the "serious offers" from "trial people wanting to buy him due to his style and eye" at his first herding lesson. :rolleyes:

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Originally posted by Columbia-

 

"Right now, he is at liberty all evening to bring me those 500 balls that I don't throw... and he's very distracting even when I try not to acknowledge him in any way!"

 

Why don't you just put the toys away when you are not playing with him? That way he can't keep bringing them to you, and he might settle down quicker when he is not focused on playing with his toys.

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