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Purina Pro Plan

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Hey, my dog at the moment is currently on purina pro plan, when i searching about raw foods on this site i read that someone couldnt believe that purina is crap. Is this true? Ive always been under the impression its the best you can give your dogs, when metioning i am going to switch to raw food people comment to me that the dog will be worse off as purina pro plan provides everything they need and by switching to a raw diet they are going to miss nutritions they need to survive. Im soooo confused on what to do!

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Here are the ingredients of Purina Pro Plan's chicken and rice formula:

 

1. Chicken

 

2. Brewer's Rice

 

3. Whole Grain Wheat

 

4. Poultry By-Product Meal

 

5. Corn Gluten Meal

 

6. Beef Tallow

 

7. Whole Corn

 

8. Corn Bran

 

9. Fish Meal

 

10. Natural Flavors

 

11. Dried Egg Product

 

12. Dicalcium Phosphate

 

13. Salt

 

14. Vitamins/Minerals **

 

Included in our foods are some of the following: Ascorbic Acid, Beta Carotene, Biotin, Calcium Carbonate, Calcium Iodate, Choline Chloride, Cobalt Carbonate, Cobalt Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Dicalcium Pantothenate, dl-Methionine, Folic Acid, Iron Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Niacin, Potassium Chloride, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin C Supplement (Sodium Ascorbate), Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement (Alpha Tocopherol), Zinc Proteinate

*********************************

 

And they have to add all of those vitamins and minerals because the cooking process kills alot of them and the rest are fillers that a dog's body can't use in the form it is given. (The total fillers are more than the meat here too!)

 

Where's Chris O.? She probably has the link that shows these vitamins and minerals are all in raw meats and naturally in a form the dog can use.

 

Also keep in mind that dog foods have a bunch of additives and preservatives. There are good quality kibbles available. Purina is not one of them.

 

It is confusing but keep researching and learning. We can always do better for our dogs.

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I have ten dogs here right now and I feed them all Pro Plan. Ten is the high end but I've been feeding between 6 and 10 dogs Pro Plan for years and they have always done well. They also have small stools which is important to me when I have this many dogs.

 

 

Kevin

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thanks miztiki, so those things you listed up to 14 i need to make sure i give roxy if i start the raw diet thing right? I printed out that big raw diet questions and answers thing you did and its great! i havnt finished reading it yet though

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If your dogs are thriving on what you feed, then it's a good food for your dog. Don't get caught up in trying something just b/c everyone else is doing it, unless of course you want to. I've heard of many dogs thriving on PPP. Do what works for your dog and you.

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I've been eating cheesecake and pizza and drinking tons of coffee and smoking two packs of cigarettes a day for 20 years and I look pretty darned good!

 

I had my old dog Mickey on the cheapest stuff I could find for over 14 years.

 

It's a proven fact though that either diet can catch up with you, cause or exacerbate health problems. Most of us here are just saying that you can do better for your dogs.

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Originally posted by Powder Puff:

...so those things you listed up to 14 i need to make sure i give roxy if i start the raw diet thing right?

No. Dogs don't need corn or wheat or rice. Those are cheap fillers that dog food companies use.

 

If you want to switch Roxy to a raw diet based on the whole prey model (like I feed Boy and Fynne), then they would get nothing but meat and bones. No dairy, no veggies, no grains, nothing but meat and bones. You could give small treats (Boy likes banana and likes to lick what's left in my pudding cup) but they should be a very small and insignificant part of their total intake.

 

If you decide against raw, at least consider a better quality of kibble where meat is listed as the first few ingredients. Just because it's listed first doesn't mean that all the other things added up don't constitute a higher percentage of the total product.

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I've been eating cheesecake and pizza and drinking tons of coffee and smoking two packs of cigarettes a day for 20 years and I look pretty darned good!

 

I had my old dog Mickey on the cheapest stuff I could find for over 14 years.

First of all, if that first part is true, you go girl!! All the power to you! lol

 

The second part is almost an oxymoron. You have fed the cheapest for over 14 yrs, yet you are trying to say it isn't good for the dog. 14+ is a dog that has had a healthy life.

 

There are better ways for all of us to eat, but it doesn't mean those of us that don't eat perfectly aren't healthy. Same with dogs. I feed kibble, always have. Have always had old dogs. Go with what works for you. Just try to stick to it. Don't go raw today and kibble tomorrow. Don't want any upset tummies.

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I had fed my cats and dogs IAMS until I joined this board. Then I switched to Chicken Soup for dogs lovers. Friends and co-workers thought I was spoiling my dogs just because I drove extra miles to get their food. I thought my dogs did good on it and that they were very healthy.

 

Lately I realized that I could do better. Her teeth, coat, skin and immune system. I could take her to the vet and get a teeth cleaning, get some skin medications etc etc. I thought I'd give raw diet a try first since that seems more natural than giving medications and anesthesia. She has been on her raw diet for 2 weeks now. We can use her as our experiment and see. It might or might not work for her. I think it is up to the dog just like kibbles. I will keep you updated.

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Originally posted by ErinKate:

The second part is almost an oxymoron. You have fed the cheapest for over 14 yrs, yet you are trying to say it isn't good for the dog. 14+ is a dog that has had a healthy life.
If I knew then what I know now, I would have provided her with a better diet. Her skin would have likely been better, her coat would have certainly been softer. Perhaps she wouldn't have had those tumors all over her. Maybe she wouldn't have had seizures. Perhaps her senses would have lasted longer. Who knows?

 

Any kibble sold in the US meets the minimum requirements for canine nutrion. What I'm saying is that people should be aware of and understand what they feed their dog and know that there are ways they can improve.

 

I'm not a follower of raw like a religion. I have no choice with Boyden but to feed raw. I feed Fynne raw because I see how well Boy has done on it. If I lived in Hawaii like Denise then I would feed Fynne a good quality kibble and not lose sleep over it. But I wish I knew about my choices when Mickey was still alive. I could have done better by her and at least fed my girl a better kibble.

 

I'm not telling anyone they *need* to change what they are feeding their dogs. I'm sharing what I have been learning about dog nutrition so that people can make knowledgeable decisions.

 

And yes, I can eat anything and never gain weight. I can piss a dieting friend off real quick by moaning and groaning over my delicious cherry cheesecake while she eats a celery stick. :rolleyes:

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And yes, I can eat anything and never gain weight. I can piss a dieting friend off real quick by moaning and groaning over my delicious cherry cheesecake while she eats a celery stick
LOLOL! Thank goodness I'm not the only one. But if your like me it can be a bad thing too. I NEED to gain a few extra lbs. and keep them on but I have such a high metabolism that nothing I do puts on weight.

 

Ok...back to your regularly scheduled program! :rolleyes:

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BTW....I've seen a few posts mention something about Iams but never explained why they don't feed it anymore. Please let me in on the secret.

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Originally posted by Miztiki:

Where's Chris O.? She probably has the link that shows these vitamins and minerals are all in raw meats and naturally in a form the dog can use.

**********

The link I think you mean is http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/

 

It's easy to navigate--just type in the food you're interested in, check off the specifics that apply, then submit. You'll get a ton of vit/min/fat/water/etc. info.

 

If not, holler...it's a great website for nutritional information of most any sort; worth bookmarking.

 

When considering any commercial dog food, the main thing is the main ingredient. If meat protein doesn't dominate the top five ingredients, the dog is not getting a fair shake. Plain and simple. If grains rule the top five, the product is not dog-friendly. No grain of any sort is needed by any dog for optimal nutrition. Plain and simple. Grains are added as a cheap/profitable energy source. Even the wiseguys who concoct these kibble diets acknowledge that carbos are not required by carnivores. However, with dog food, profit rules. So dogs get stuff they don't need and can't digest because the stuff is cheap.

 

 

There are good quality kibbles available. Purina is not one of them.

**********

Well, I would suggest that "good" as regards kibble is entirely relative, but I do agree that Purina is very very good to its stockholders, not necessarily our stockdogs.

 

A really jampacked with info website is www.dogaware.com The owner has complied an amazing amount of dog nutrition and health-related stuff, comparative dogfood ratings is but one topic. While she and I differ on many issues, I give her full credit for a very useful website.

 

Chris O

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Originally posted by concrete:

They also have small stools which is important to me when I have this many dogs.

**********

Well, small stools that are a result of a high degree of bioavailability is one thing. This means the food that went in was highly digestible and efficient nutrition.

 

Small and/or firm stools that are a result of added stool firmers (beet pulp is a good example) are completely artificial. Just as a human can really bung up normal, um, bathroom habits by depending on supplemental fiber like Benefiber or Fibercon or whatever they're called. Artifice, not natural digestive response to what was eaten.

 

Looks good on the ground, that's for darn sure. But the appearance is entirely deceptive.

Chris O

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Hi PowderPuff - FWIW, I believe that Purina ProPlan is what Guide Dogs use for all their pups and dogs (here in Oz). If that's right, they must be fairly satisfied with it - although of course they kibble feed for convenience for their clients.

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yeah, well ive decieded im swapping to a raw diet but it wont be till feb next year as im living at my parents house again at the moment and my sisters dog lives here and she doesnt want her going on a raw diet and i dont think it would be fair giving roxy those nice juicy meaty bones while jazz gets dry biscuts. So for now i thought i would get to know all there is to know (or try to ) and get excited about seeing the change in roxy when i do swawp her diet

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And yes, I can eat anything and never gain weight. I can piss a dieting friend off real quick by moaning and groaning over my delicious cherry cheesecake while she eats a celery stick.
Same here until I hit about 35, then I had to start adding a few celery sticks myself. :rolleyes: And now that I hit the big 4 0 this year, I'm dieting for the first time in my life.

 

I've got my two on Innova after coming on these boards in Jan., but would love to do the raw thing because Loki doesn't realy care about his food at all. My dog Levi lived to almost 18 on the various kibbles from the grocery. I think after reading alot about the lower end kibbles that his inflammatory bowel disease may have come from his diet.

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I love the USDA site - for our own use as well as the dogs'.

 

I have to say after three years of largely preparing our dog's food, I continue to recieve surprises. When I switched Ben over to true whole prey (what could be more natural than eating a whole duck?), I was able to take him off his dementia meds and supplements. That makes me feel good because a) selegiline is outrageously expensive and :rolleyes: I don't know what it does to dogs but it causes hypertension and all kinds of other wonderfulness in people. I know as he gets older he'l probably go back on it again but it's nice for now to see the old Ben without medicating him into that state.

 

I'm growing out a whole bunch of ducks for him and plan to continue to do so. In the meantime, I figure his selegiline cost $88 a month - that's a heck of a lot of whole rabbits and poultry - there's a guy in SC who supplies raw folks with the whole critter and I plan to look into that for now.

 

Amazing what a difference food can make.

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Originally posted by Rebecca, Brook Cove Farm:

When I switched Ben over to true whole prey (what could be more natural than eating a whole duck?), I was able to take him off his dementia meds and supplements. That makes me feel good because a) selegiline is outrageously expensive and :rolleyes: I don't know what it does to dogs but it causes hypertension and all kinds of other wonderfulness in people.

You got my attention, Becca! Rip is on Anipryl now, and it's helping him a lot. I pay $72 a month, and I agonize over the choice each time I need another supply. Please tell me more about what you're doing with Ben. I fed all of my guys (and gal) raw chicken for a long time, but I've somehow drifted away from it. I'd appreciate the details on what has worked for Ben. Rip will be 15 in October. I hope. Thanks!

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Joan,

Can you have your vet write you a prescription for selegiline? It's bound to be cheaper than the cost of Anipryl. If it's helping a lot, I wouldn't rock the boat on that boy. BTW, I had to sit up with Miss Eve (mother of Luke and one of Rip's former wives) last night, she was having a Miss Daisy moment, all wobbly and confused. This morning she rolled in the grass, ate horse feed off the floor of the barn and was 100% herself again, whew!

Give yourself and the Man a hug for me...

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Originally posted by Tassie:

I believe that Purina ProPlan is what Guide Dogs use for all their pups and dogs (here in Oz). If that's right, they must be fairly satisfied with it

**********

I'm sure it's donated by Purina. I have no doubt. Fabulous PR opportunity, plus it's a charity write-off. Plus, Purina's support of GD also gets Purina into the private household--a win-win proposition for Purina all the way around.

 

For GD or any other non-profit, "free" is invaluable. I am certain it would take a LOT of bad press for GD to turn down free dogfood.

 

Also, those breeders/handlers/vets you read of, praising PPP or IAMs or Pedigree? Paid endorsements, every one. Whether bucks or free food for life, paid shills.

 

One can feed whatever one wants to feed, for whatever reasons, for however long one wants. What's important to remember though is that Purina andr Waltham and IAMs will NEVER knowingly themselves in a bad light. Dog food companies make huge profits on their products--the "pet" owning community has very deep pockets when it comes to its animals. Like any successful company, Purina or whoever has well-paid staff that makes darn sure the publicity Purina gets is good publicity; these people are brilliant in creating new markets and exploiting old ones.

 

Just as you shouldn't base raw diet decisions on faddy claims, you also shouldn't base commercial dog food decisions on endorsements. Do the research in either case.

Chris O

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Originally posted by Debbie Crowder-BaaramuLuke:

Can you have your vet write you a prescription for selegiline? It's bound to be cheaper than the cost of Anipryl. If it's helping a lot, I wouldn't rock the boat on that boy. BTW, I had to sit up with Miss Eve (mother of Luke and one of Rip's former wives) last night, she was having a Miss Daisy moment, all wobbly and confused. This morning she rolled in the grass, ate horse feed off the floor of the barn and was 100% herself again, whew!

Give yourself and the Man a hug for me...

Hi, Debbie! My vet insists that there is no generic for Anipryl. :mad: (This is a new vet for me, and I'm not entirely satisfied!) I'll talk to her about it again. I agree with you about rocking the boat. Before Anipryl, he was forgetting to go outside for bathroom trips. After a week of so of Anipryl, no more accidents! That's just one example.

 

I remember Eve! One of Rip's MANY former wives. :rolleyes: I know spending time with her is special for you. Sorry she is having those senior moments, but it sounds like she's having good days, too. Rip's biggest problem right now is the back third of his body. He falls a lot and has trouble getting up. He occasionally has a day when it doesn't bother him, and he is obviously still enjoying life.

 

I had him at Robin's place last Sunday, and he was roaming around, sniffing and grazing, totally oblivious to the fact that I was working sheep. He even stood beside me while I was working Dhu. He did take the walk-up command that I gave Dhu. He would like being called The Man. :cool:

 

Will you be at the VBCA trial this weekend?

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The dog food question always puzzles me...I know if I fed the food that was absolutely THE very best for my dogs, they'd live long, healthy lives, free of any abnormalities that I could attribute to their diet. IF they lived out in the wild again, they'd probably be hunter/scavengers, eating wild stuff in it's entirety, and be fine, same as the coyotes/raccoons/feral cats are out our way(just animals I've seen) or not, because I'm not so sure those animals wouldn't look/feel better on commercial diets and less stressful lives having to find their own food. I have had access to premium diets that I got wholesale or free, just for being an employee of a particular vendor, and I have witnessed lots of animals who come in with clients that get fed all kinds of stuff, from strictly only turkey bologna to raw lamb ground with lots of scoops of this and that vitamin/minerals to raw chicken necks to Big Red Chunks. Some animals look better than others, and some animals getting what I'd consider premium feeds have diseases right next to the ones who eat "crap", and believe me, vice-versa ("crap"eaters who live to be 16 or better).

 

What research do you do? I'm serious. I'd do whatever I thought best for my animals based on:

a) thriftiness (how they look and perform)

b)cost (very real to me)

c) convenience (ease and continuity of preparation and aquisition, also considering this for travelling).

 

It's tough to feel like someone might consider your choice of diet to be pracically abusive if it works for you and your animals, yet I still look for the better thing if I can do it.

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Rebecca,

Would you mind sending me more info about the guy in SC that provides whole critters for raw feeders? My email is lisa_rayburn at hotmail if you didn't mind.

 

PowderPuff,

I'm switching my dogs to raw because Ben doesn't do well on most kibbles and both dogs were getting tartar on their teeth. I don't want my dogs to be anesthetized just for teeth cleaning and would like them to have fresher breath.

 

Ben was eating Purina One Sensitive Stomach and doing okay but not great on it so I'm hoping to see an improvement with the raw. I think he has some food allergies or "sensitivities". If your dog is doing well on the kibble it is on - that's fine. If you have a problem - skin allergies, tooth and breath issues, chronic or degenerative diseases - raw might help and it can't hurt to try.

 

If you decide to switch your dog, go ahead and do it. Just feed her in her crate or in a separate room from the other dog - the benefits will be worth the slight inconvenience.

 

I'm currently feeding raw to two dogs in a one-room efficiency with a dorm-room refrigerator, two cats and a house rabbit. So it can be done - it's not much more difficult than kibble and it's a lot more fun for all of us.

Lisa

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