Jump to content
BC Boards
Sign in to follow this  
IronHorse

A brief introduction

Recommended Posts

I think you all scared Ironhorse away. Or I should say he (I'm assuming) is thinking why bother with this board.

 

How complicated an introduction can get.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

BTW-

If anyone wants a cause. I found this website through the products

 

http://www.bordercollies.com/

 

I have never even imagined this. You can buy for around $450.-600. frozen sperm from stud dogs. There is a contract, however basically anyone with money and an imagination can breed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If the comments have scared Ironhorse or discouraged Shewster, well, good-bye to them.

 

The comments were spot on. Breeding for the sake of breeding - as a business - is not the way to keep the border collie a border collie.

 

Don't like to hear that? Then find another board or forum that thinks it's really neat to breed until the poor bitch wears out and for color or hair or eyes or other stupid reasons.

 

No one ever promised that this gang was going to play nice with jerks and idiots. This is a gang that does not suffer fools lightly. Says so up front.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First, I don't respond to those who can't spell and never will. Secondly, nothing discourages me, and third I'm LOL. Thank you for the insight to the wonderment of this Board. Shewster.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nancy, by the way, you better watch your mouth, slander is certainly not something I will accept, nor will my attorney! Shewster.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Christine, thank you for bringing this topic of frozen sperm to our attention. Now what about irresponsibility gang? I suppose you are going to blame the BYB for this, too!! Shewster.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Originally posted by Shewster:

First, I don't respond to those who can't spell and never will.

 

You spelled 'unconscionable' incorrectly in your fourth post on this topic.

 

Still waiting on an answer to Denise's question.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Frozen sperm has it's advantages and it's disadvandages. A possible advantage might be to reintroduce herding instinct in 10 years down the line to a breed that no longer possesses it because it's been bred indiscriminately. Of course if I were the owner of such sperm, I would only breed to approved bitches showing the highest available quality of working ability-at my own cost so that I could keep most of the litter and test them for ability as they age.

 

The breeding of dogs that are not proven workers and the selling of sperm or dogs for the sole advantage of the cash your pocket is of course, irresponsible regardless of how high tech or low tech the method of the breeding.

 

Shewester, you have yet to post your opinion of any topic in regards to dogs, breeding, etc. You have simply voiced your opinion of how you don't like how we voice ours.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is sad that I posted a welcome to Ironhorse, then stepped away from this post. I noticed all the activity and stopped in again to find foolishness.

BC people, I know you are smarter than this!!!!

Let this Shuckster be! Don't even entertain him/her. Leave this post alone. Having a heated discussion is one thing, this idiot is baiting you all every chance he gets.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yikes

These are the type of people that take time to change their thought patterns. They are strong, willful and believe in what they think they know. They are not bad people (at least I can?t tell by this thread) They can turn into wonderful stewards of the breed if educated kindly or carefully. Berating them or using the fighting techniques that I see here do nothing but make them dig in their heals harder.

Most on this board were "uneducated" in the correct BC way when they came to the boards. Some had less baggage than others. Some took much longer to be swayed.

Please try to start over and educate with kindness, it goes much quicker.

 

I appreciate all the rescuers and send out a huge Thank you to all. I do my share of rescuing and I don't breed. But at one time I think I might have thought about it. If I hadn't learned any different, had I been chased away from here. I might not have learned anything. As it turns out, I?ve changed my thoughts about a million times on the BC. Changing each time I learn a new piece of inf. I'm not afraid to say my lessons have come at a large expense. I am not the same person as I was when I "bought" my first bc from a BYB.

 

Please...Live and learn....Live and Teach...but quit bickering. You get no where except for a big bump from ramming your heads into the brick wall!

 

Thanks to all who rescue, and thanks to all who take the time to learn about this wonderful breed.

 

Please...Ironhorse, and Shewster, stop reading this thread and stay awhile longer, you will learn allot and I for one will not pick on you or hold this inappropriate thread against anyone, including you both.

Ironhorse, I live in MO too. There are lots of great BC people in MO and lots of bad breeders too. Aren't we known as the puppymiller state? I don't think the people running the puppymills would call themselves that. They don't know it or don't care. Stay awhile and learn. It isn't always this hard!

Sincerely

Kristen Reker

Cedar Hill, MO

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Who spoke up for Nancy, can't she speak for herself? I see that message came from "HER".

Thank You, Kristen. Your message was the most intelligent one I've seen on here. I appreciate the support and admire your diplomacy. Shewster.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This thread is going nowhere and I'm sure if Eileen was around, she would end this thread.

 

There's a private messaging option available. Please utilize it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Terribly sorry I failed to respond immediately. Guess I shouldn't have gone to church, where I had responsibilities as lector, intercessor, altar guild member, Episcopal churchwoman, and Eucharistic minister. Better have you let my rector know that your posts are the real priority.

 

No one gets to answer your comments to me? Then why were you able to jump in on the discussion with Ironhorse? One rule for me; another one for you? Not how I play the game.

 

BTW, could you please identify what I misspelled? As a professional editor, I do try to check my writing. I even run it through a spelling and grammar check.

 

If you want to sue me for libel, you'll have to prove that you are not a jerk, idiot, or fool. Never mind proving that I called you one. Guess the shoe fits too well?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

shewster,

 

i generally dont join in on these heated discussions, but...............

tell me, have you done the 3.30 am trips to the pound to save collies from lethal injection, knowing that you HAVE to be there by 8.00 or it will be to late? have you cradled the ones brought to you from a puppy farm to die in your arms of parvo?

have you tried to put the pieces back together for a dog who has bitten someone in fear because the owner didnt know what they were getting into?

have you had your sheep mauled half to death by someones collie dog because the owner thought it would be fun to let them have a go without asking me if it was ok first?(admitedly it is generally not a bc that does this, but last thursday it was). then tried to stop the owner beating the dog because he thought the dog was in the wrong?

have you gone to bed a night sobbing because of the ones you didnt get to in time??? have you? HAVE YOU!!!!?????

because i have, so have others, the people on this board are not saying that breeding collies is wrong, they are saying that they should not be bred for breedings sake! they should be bred if and only if they will better the breed!

if you take offence to this then tough! the breed doesnt need people like this! (ironhorse, none of this is directly aimed at you, please dont think it is, you came here to learn and i personally really hope you stick around).

i will not sit back and let you slag off people who i consider to be my friends, who have dealt with the same stuff that i have had to, who would spend their last breath helping a dog in need, without saying something.

GROW UP! if you dont like the way people react to your nasty spiteful comments, then dont post them!

 

to everyone else, please excuse my outburst, i hope you all know me well enough by now to know that this is not how i usually respond to a post, but i wont have you all bitched at after everything you have done for the breed, and the advice you have all given to me personally.

isnt it telling that when i lost my beloved molly, THIS was the place i came to first for understanding?......

apologies once again

love to you all

donna

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can't really add anything to the discussion that hasn't already been "said" via countless grand responses with regard to the importance of breeding with a singular focus on working ability. However, I will say that each go-round provides yet another opportunity to educate those that "just don't get it," and I appreciate the perseverence of those that draw a deep breath and remain dedicated to getting the message across... yet again.

 

With regard to the high selling dog - the 2005 high seller was a male named Rebel (Katch x Indian Oaks Jill [Odie x Jill on bottom]) that sold for $10,500. While both Dolly and Lucy (the 2004 high selling dog) are by Odie, out of different dams, making them half-sisters, it seems in the rush to claim a bit of fame, someone got their facts mixed up - imagine that.

 

...It also mentions that Miss Dolly's half brother was the highest priced Border Collies sold at Red Bluff in 2004 for $10,500.00

 

Wrong!! That was a bitch named Lucy and she sold for $10,400. She is a red tri bitch and I have seen her run.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As to the "frozen sperm" issue, last time I checked, those were all WORKING studs, most well known and with plenty of trial and ranch mileage behind them. Most are in the UK and frozen sperm is the only way to impregnate a good working bitch in the US with those bloodlines. Geri is providing it as a service to working owners who have done their homework, researching bloodlines, traits and breeding crosses. Certainly very few backyard breeders or "sport" breeders would go to this trouble- they aren't the right colors, anyway. But even if they did- all you have to do is ask what the bitch did...and you'd get the answer- "well, she's got a great temperment, not hyper like those working border collies, and she carries the merle gene!"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've looked into frozen semen for my bitch from Aled's Bob (2002 World Trial Winner).

 

Believe me, no BYB or sport breeder is going to pay that much for something that means nothing to them.

 

It costs a lot.

 

Katelynn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not to mention you will generally get a pup for yourself and maybe one other. I've thought about it too (I'm also a huge fan of Aled Owen's lines and Bob in particular). I would only do it if I were very, very sure that was the only way to do what I wanted.

 

Cost and low viability makes AI a lousy option for commercial breeders - believe me, it would be used among these people now if it weren't. AI is a way to preserve old lines (you can get sperm from deceased great dogs) and infuse your lines with some particular trait that is hard to get locally.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, its like one or two pups a litter when using AI, if that! And they are mostly larger puppies, leading to large vet bills.

 

I don't think any high volume breeder/BYB/miller would risk that much money on such small chances and small profit, if any.

 

They can use any ole' dog and sell puppies, they don't care!

 

Katelynn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Christine,

Regarding the frozen sperm. This site you are choosing to pick on is Geri Byrne's Border Collies in Action. For anyone who doesn't know Geri is more than dedicated to the working Border Collie. She and her fabulous group will be putting on the National Sheepdog FINALS in 2006!!!!!!! She knows what she is doing. Find someone else to pick on.

 

Jennifer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
She and her fabulous group will be putting on the National Sheepdog FINALS in 2006!!!!!!! She knows what she is doing. Find someone else to pick on.
It would be picking on if I said this is totally wrong, the nerve or if I had said any of the horrendous actions on this thread.

 

I said I never imagined this before. And someone could order sperm and do whatever they wish with that. How is that picking on anyone?

 

It's called verbal redirection. OK

 

So anyway I know artificial insemination caused an increase in multiple births. Would this be the same with dogs? Would you end up with a liter of 20+ pups? If there are women having 7 babies, I imagine it would have the same effect

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Whoa, people. I think that to some people that may not be familiar with AI, the idea of buying frozen sperm to breed, might seem like it goes against the ideals of 'responsible breeding'. A simple matter of clearing up a misconception and everyone can learn. (I am not unfamiliar with the practice and I learned a bit myself from the thread).

 

Anyway, I don't think Christine was picking on anyone.

 

 

Why don't we all take a deep breathe and let it all go....?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Originally posted by Christine:

So anyway I know artificial insemination caused an increase in multiple births. Would this be the same with dogs? Would you end up with a liter of 20+ pups? If there are women having 7 babies, I imagine it would have the same effect
No - I think you are probably thinking of artificial fertilization,a test-tube "fertilization" that is then implanted in a woman's uterus. Multilpe eggs might be fertilized, and are all usually implanted. That opens up a whole ethical discussion that I think is better left off this board.

In dogs, this isn't done. The semen is implanted directly into the bitch, (usually surgically, for frozen semen)and the results are not usually as fruitful as natural breedings or fresh semen A.I. breeding (less puppies, and/or less pregnancies). Usually, you would be lucky to get a litter of 2 or 3 from a frozen semen implant. Thawed frozen sperm is not as active or viable as the live stuff.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...