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hip dysplasia vs injury?

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Lucy is now four months old tonight we were playing fetch with a tennis ball when her left hind leg went out. since that time she has been limping. I took her to the vet who lifted her leg up at the hip joint and Lucy yelleped. I have been keeping lucy on a restricted diet since the age of 5 weeks and she is thin(this is supposed to limit the chances of hip dysplasia) in addition her dad was tested with a rating of excellent and the mother had a rating of good. I have let lucy run on grass at her own will we play a little frisbee once a week and she has a puppy friend who she loves to play with. I think this is unlikely to be hip dysplasia since the limp started suddenly and isn't she too young at 4 months to show symptoms?

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Sorry to hear about your pup. I'm sure you can get to the bottom of it and some rest should help you determine what is going on.

 

I will say that:

 

I have been keeping lucy on a restricted diet since the age of 5 weeks and she is thin(this is supposed to limit the chances of hip dysplasia) in addition her dad was tested with a rating of excellent and the mother had a rating of good.
doesn't mean anything.

 

1. Putting a 5 week old on a restricted diet can be dangerous. 5 weeks! These little guys need LOTS of vitamins, protein, fat, etc. They are growing and growing. Restricting their diets could very well spell trouble in the long run. This could very well be the root of your problem. Lack of specific nurishment in the dog.

 

2. Keeping a dog "thin" is not how you help prevent HD. The dog needs to be fit. Fit, healthy muscle is what will help keep the hip joint in the socket. Being thin will not help. Having a fit dog might help you. No extra fat, good muscle tone and well exercised in low impact activities. Frisbee is not low impact.

 

3. While parents having a good test rating is nice, I do believe that pups from two excellent dogs can get a bad rating. So, just because the parents are good, doesn't mean you are off the hook. You need to know the genetic history farther back, of siblings too. It goes on and on.

 

Yes, some dogs this young can show signs of HD but they are usually EXTREME cases.

 

How long ago did this happen? What did your vet tell you to do? Is the pup on meds? Did he take any x-rays. I think he should. Is the pup getting any better? Is he sensitive to touch anywhere in that leg? Pressure? What about rocking the dogs hind end? Any pain shown here? What if you LIGHTLY press on the dogs hind end while standing? Does the dog show pain? How big is the pup at the shoulder? How much does he weigh? Do you have any stairs in your house? Does he do any jumping? Into the car?

 

I am curious what your vet told you.

 

Denise

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Actually i am a physician and if you do a literature search on "emed" there is research that shows if you calorie restrict puppies it decreases the incidence of hip dyplasia. I think the study had around 40 dogs. half of the dogs were fed normal and 50% restricted diet none of the pups on the restricted diet developed hip dysplasia where as several of the pups on the non restricted diet did indeed develop hip dysplasia. As far as nutrition Lucy is growing at a nice steady even pace and at 4 months weighs 22 pounds. I am just posing these questions to see if anyone has experience with a pup this young having hip dysplasia.

ps

to see your dog limp and cry is the most devestating thing

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when the dog's symptomatic leg is bent backward she yelps. she is not symptomatic by palpation over the hip joint. she is only symptomatic with movement. She has never limped on that leg before tonight. she has very strong muscular shoulders.

the vet recommended i watch her for a few days and if she doesn't get better would do a hip xray. the problem with the xray is they have to get anesthesia so i would probably wait 6 months at which time she is supposed to get spade. and here is the article demonstarting the effect of restricted diet

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...st_uids=1399793

no stairs in the house. she love to jump on my bed but when she jumps off she always lands on her front paws. her activity is limited since i only take her to the park once a week. again tonight was the first time she limped and it was after she chased a tennis ball .

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You do need to watch out for the higher impact and repetitive activities like fetching and definitely Frisbee. I've known many dogs whose growth plates were damaged through being pushed into heavy activity, too young.

 

I did know a dog with CHD that was severely symptomatic at four months old. One parent was rated excellent, one was had a good rating. There were two other affected pups in the litter. You could really tell. At four months he would come up lame after exercise and was very sore, and by six months could hardly walk.

 

As a physican I'm sure you understand the value of a second, preferably expertise, opinion. Get thee to a specialist.

 

Good luck.

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what does "lame after exercise mean"

more specifically "lame" what does this word mean in this context?

I found an amazing article on hip dysplasia a must read it is several parts but states what has been stated before that its genetic and although decreased activity and die t restriction may help its still in the genes and if your dog is predisposed there is not much to do.

http://siriusdog.com/articles/dysplasia-hi...a-pennhip-1.htm

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my heart is broken!

at 4 months lucy can catch a frisby, catch a ball inher mouth ect. she already has mastered every trick and command.

I can't imagine the devistation if she does have hip dysplasia especially lucy lives to play as so many border collies do.

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Echo, don't let your heart be broken!

 

Maybe she just did something to it and it will go away in a day or two. Don't let yourself get too worked up. It's too soon!

 

Not only that, but CHD does not equate to devestation! Like any ailment or disease, there are ways around it. Please don't be so sad.

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Echo -

 

I don't think you need to panic here...

 

I really think you need to wait a few days. Keep the pup confined to a crate and see how things go.

 

As for the restricted diet thing - I agree with watching calories. But I also think it's just as important to have a fit dog with good, healthy muscle tone in the back hip area. If the dog is limited to once a week of ball playing or frisbee - I wouldn't think that the pup has time to maintain healthy muscle tone.

 

I have read many places that high impact things like running on cement, frisbee, etc is not good for young dogs with HD or not. Growth plates and such. Please watch that with this pup.

 

It could very well be that the poor thing pulled a muscle. Imagine if you were confined to a house all week and then one day in that week you get to chase and chase and chase and jump and play and romp! It would be very easy to pull a muscle or tear a tendon and rip something.

 

This could be what happened. Let it rest for a few days and SLOWLY bring the exercise level back up. No frisbee. And I'd restrict ball playing too. If it is a torn tendon or pulled muscle, those things take months to heal sometimes.

 

Also, when your pup is feeling better, it might be advisable to get it on a daily exercise routine. To help strengthen the hind end.

 

When you do have the pup spayed, ask them to do an x-ray just for reference sake. You can always compare it when you get official ones done at 2 years.

 

Hope she feels a bit better tomorrow. I wouldn't be pulling on the leg for a while. Good luck,

 

Denise

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Oh one more thing Echo - I read the article on restricted diet. I think you have your facts mixed up.

 

"Using the OFA method, 7 of the 24 limit-fed dogs and 16 of the 24 ad libitum-fed dogs were diagnosed as having hip dysplasia."

 

You had said that "none of the pups on the restricted diet developed hip dysplasia."

 

Just wanted to point that out to folks who might read the thread, but not the additional info you posted.

 

Again, good luck and take a deep breath!

 

Denise

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yes i did get the article mixed up but please read the second article the evidence is pretty sound that diet restriction does help!

My dog does get light exercise every day with nice walks and gentle play i only play frisbee once a week because it is her passion and the evidence is not scientifically validated that decreased exercise protects the hips!! In humans congential hip dysplasia is not related to exercise but possibly genetics and the position of the fetus in utero. the second article is a very open minded assesment of what is known and is not. The article specifically discusses that there is no scientific evidence that the surface a dog plays on such as concrete predisposes to hip dysplasia that being said i stay safe just in case and lucy only plays outdoors on grass or sand!

its amazing how strong the bond between pets and us owners really is. Just hearing my baby whimper is tearing at my soul!

I think i am extra sensitive since my father died just a year ago a teribble painful death and struggle with cancer. my mother was just diagnosed with lung cancer hopefully cured by resection . and my border collie mix 16 years old died a few months ago. i need a string of better luck sorry to vent! I pray this was only a limited injury maybe a muscle pull but with such bad luck lately i tend to jump to thinking the worse case scenario

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Don't panic. Even the worst case scenario isn't the end of the world. When CHD is caught early there are therapies that can allow the affected dog a nearly normal lifestyle. No jumping, twisting, or other extreme sports in the worst cases, but there are SO many other things you can do with a dog. Swimming, tracking, and freestyle are all low-impact sports that emphasize using that brain. You can start now looking for ways to use the brain, not the body, even if there's no reason to limit activity in the future. I used to tell all the folks who adopted pups from me - if the pup wouldn't do it on their own, don't make them do it. Let pup be a pup - run with her, encourage her to use her nose, swim when the weather's nice, play hide and seek, teach her tricks, the list goes on and on.

 

I hope your pup is OK - but really, she'll be fine no matter what happens. You've done all you can so far to help her - keep your chin up and make sure she's getting good vibes off you. Don't forget, bedside manner is more important to a dog that can sense way more than a human! :rolleyes: While she's resting you can bone up on tricks to teach her.

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Echo -

 

I'm sorry...I'm NOT arguing with you. I know you are upset and I probably didn't word things right...I'm not saying restrictive diets are a bad idea. I keep both my dogs VERY thin (many folks think they are way too thin) but with a very stong muscle foundation. I maintain this muscle tone with daily, low-impact exercise.

 

I didn't mean to imply that less exercise is better. Not at all. More exercise - but low impact - is actually better as a preventitive for HD signs.

 

Let your pup rest a few days and let us know how it goes. And I apologize if I sounded like I was arguing with you. I was just trying to clarify things.

 

Denise

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I would say a couple of things.

 

"Restricted" in the study you cite means "not free choice" -- the key is to feed the dog enough to support normal growth and development, not so much that it grows too fast. You may also want to consider feeding a lower-protein diet -- good quality adult food rather than puppy food, for instance.

 

Second, playing frisbee on the beach may be fun, but it's very hard on joints. The more joint injuries your pup suffers while growing, the more likely it is that she'll have troubles down the road.

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Did the vet take x-rays? CHD can most certainly show up this early, and it's actually better if it does. There's a new procedure that can only be done on young pups, 4 months being the ideal age. I don't remember the name or all the details, but they go in and surgically create a better joint and fuse it into place. I have an agility student (a vet) who had that done to her BC pup. Check with your vet and do x-rays if you haven't.

 

CHD is not the end of the world, if that's what it is. But you can't rely on palpation for a definitive diagnosis, take x-rays and get a vet radiologist to look at them.

 

-Laura

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Here is a link to one of the newer procedures being done on young dogs. But it must be done at a young age.

 

http://www.vetsurgerycentral.com/jps.htm

 

It is not as major a surgery as some of the other corrections.

 

Hope your dog is just having growing pains or trouble with a pulled/strained muscle and nothing as dire as major CHD.

 

Good luck

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I am curious as to the age you got your puppy - as you say that you have had it on a restricted diet since 5 weeks. That's way too young to be leaving momma and siblings.

 

Also,if the puppy has strained/pulled the ligament, that takes at least 6 weeks to heal, but as a physician I am sure you are aware of that, so restricted activity is very very important. If it is a ligament and it does not heal properly, it won't be able to do it's job in relation to the hip.

 

If the muscles have been damaged, again you need to really restrict exercise for a period of time, and theny slowly let the puppy come back to play mode - just like injured athletes slowly bring themselves back up.

 

I hope you are not throwing the frisbee for the puppy to jump up at catch - I didn't see where you said how you were playing frisbee, but I could have just missed that.

 

Best of luck with your puppy

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yes 5 weeks is too young yet she is amazing she is very socialized with humans and other dogs. She palys with other dogs only in a very gentle manner. She loves children and becomes very gentle around them.

I called a famous orthopedic surgeon and he recommended a friend of his who lives in the chicago area they were able to sneak me in today for an evaluation i will keep everyone posted.

Meantime i cut back her weight training to only 6 times a day(just kidding :rolleyes: )

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Just got back from the orthopedic doc.

Lucy has stable very strong hips the xray showed no signs of either dysplasia or epiphysis damage.

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possibly soft tissue injury, less likely synovial irritation(joint space fluid) he aslo said sometimes the epiphysis can get bumped and is sensitive. A good sign is although she is still tender on physical exam with hip extension her limp is almost completely gone! This is bad news for those of you who compete in agility competition because Lucy is an amazing athlete she has remarkable coordination at just 3 month when i through a tennis ball at her she caught it in the air and even the ortho doc was impressed with her muscle mass( i sound like a proud parent) Most imprortant i am glad my best friend is ok!

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Wick says, bring it on :rolleyes: I love when they're running so fast that their ear flaps back.

 

jump2.jpg

 

Seriously though, be careful with that ball throwing!!!!!!!!! Don't end your pup's agility career before it even starts.

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As a physician, I hope you realize the problems are you looking at creating in a young pup at this age by do inappropriate things like frisbee and jumping up to catch balls. You are just begging to create joint problems in this pup, because you are demanding more than the joints, ligaments, tendons and muscles can deal with at this point in time. You are doing high impact things with this pup when you should be making sure everything is very low impact. This pup is only what - 4 months old - my goodness!

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