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ToffeesDad

Breed Snobbery

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I know I'll catch a bad time for this one, but I don't believe there is such thing as breed snobbery with dogs. Border Collies like any other dog or animal have likes and dislikes. Sometimes there are traits found within a breed that a specific dog may be attracted to or dislike.

I find that usually owners/handlers are the breed snobs and that snobbish energy is sent right down the leash, so to speak.

The reason I have this opinion is that I have had many different breeds of dogs over time and have found that certain breeds do have some traits that are stronger or weaker than in other breeds but overall dogs are dogs are dogs. It tends to be owners/handlers that try to attach these traits so strongly to the dog and become conditioned to believe in these traits. It's that same mental conditioning that causes people to freak out when a Pit Bull, Rottweiler, etc. come into the dog park. They have been conditioned to believe these breeds are mean and aggressive when in reallity they are no worse than any other dog when raised properly.

My point being, as an owner of a BC if you act a certain way towards other dogs, your own dog will feed of the energy you project, whether it be snobbish, rude, aggressive, fear, etc.

 

Please let me know if you think I'm way off base.

 

Matt

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I think you're way off base. I can't recall how many times I've been chatting with someone near a high dog traffic area and suddenly felt Wick behind me wriggling at the end of her leash, only to turn around and see a BC walking by. I've had a lot of BC's come through my care and have noticed this to be a trend...this includes dogs not on leash that aren't bonded to me, so aren't picking up any "vibe".

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Hello Matt,

My trainer calls it "breed recognition", from her many years of observing dogs.

 

My female BC, Tenaya, just goes absolutely into "worship mode" if she sees another BC male or many BC females (including one of her good buddies who is a BC/Belgian Sheepdog cross). She has never exhibited this behavior with any other breed.

 

The exception is with other young BC females, where she gets into mutual lip-curling "stay out of my space" stuff--there were 2 other BC females near to her age in her last Agility class, and all 3 of them behaved the same way with each other.

 

My rough Collie, Willow, likes most other dogs but whenever there is another Collie around, she ignores all others and wants to play with the other Collie. It's an amazing thing to see. And this is a dog who normally likes to play with most any canine around.

 

Deanna in OR

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Well, essentially you just wrote an entire post about how a community of border collie owners are snobs, which is again another generalization, and not a particularly kind one either.

 

You are of course welcome to your opinion, but I don't agree with it.

 

While I think we do communicate all sorts of things to our dogs, they are also sentient being who have their own emotional processes. And in my experience, border collies communicate with one another in a similar fashion, which makes them more likely to be drawn to one another. I have never gone to a dog park and seen the border collies playing with the other dogs - I see them either facing off for the ball, or facing off of the dog facing off the ball.

 

When I took my middle dog to doggie daycare as a puppy for socialization, he would only come out of his kennel to play with the other border collie there, the staff told me. Otherwise he stayed away from the other dogs and pouted. Not sure what I was communicating to him from an entirely different bulding 6 blocks away while I was working ..? Maybe you could tell me, because I can't make sense of that.

 

I find it really strange that you continue to discount a whole slew of people's direct experience with their border collies in face of your theory.

 

I also find your theory fundamentally flawed ... how does a person condition a dog to have a negative response to a certain breed if, as you say, dogs can't differentiate between breeds since they are all dogs?

 

RDM

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I have to disagree as well.

 

I can't claim to have a well socialized pup, but, he does get along best with other border collies and herders. At agility, he was fine with a bc mix, the belgian shepherd and the corgi. Absolutely hated the yellow lab and golden retriever.

 

A friend recently adopted a border collie, she brought him over and they were instant pals.

 

As for dog parks, the few times we've gone, he got along with some aussies, and we've had to pull him out because of fights with labs and other in your face breeds.

 

Dogs may be dogs, but mine is a snob.

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Ohyeah, one other thing--both my girls (Tenaya and Willow) are well-socialized, having been in 2-3 dog classes a week since they were young pups, and going to doggie-daycare a day or 2 a week for as long. Where, by the way, Tenaya will only play with Willow, or has to be herding either a ball or the pack of all the other dogs for much of the day.

 

Deanna in OR

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I have had a variety of breeds as well which differed in appearance----GSD's, Keeshonden, Shelties, BC's, Caucasian Ovcharkas. Each and every one recognized their own kind or was recognized by their own kind, without any prompting from me.

 

My ovcharkas often react(ed)with aggression to their own kind. This is something I certainly did not encourage or telegraphed to them. It is a breed known for dog aggression and my own reacted in kind. I have never had a problem bringing border collies into the house, though, even with the more aggressive of the mt. dogs, Juta.

 

Another example, my Pete dog. He is the one who could do a classic walk up and exhibited "eye" on any object I held in my hand. We went to a lot of dog shows over the years with our border collie club booth. His "walk up" and "eye" were always a big hit.

 

I remember one time, we did this for someone not too far from where a lot of dogs were crated. All the non-bc's found this intimidating and whole rows of crates came alive with barking at Pete's rendition of the bc "eye". Border collies in the area, upon seeing this "eye", recognized Pete as "kin".

 

I fostered a rescue Golden for a while and enjoyed taking him to dog parks. He was a fun dog because he loved to play with anyone willing to play with him. To me that's typical Golden.

Red flags would have gone up for me if he reacted to other dogs the same way my border collies do.

 

There are breed specific traits and cannot be socialized or trained out of a dog. Based on that, I've talked a lot of people out of border collies, who thought they might get a nice black and white golden.

 

Vicki

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I have five Border Collies and they are all snobs in their way. Like someone else said, they will go to kennels and react the same way to dogs in daycare there. I take two of mine to a kennel where the owner trains and breeds Border Collies, in addition to training and boarding dogs of all breeds. During free play time, my mixed breed plays with all the dogs and my Border Collies stick their noses in the air until one of the kennel owner's dogs shows up. If this were an attitude my dogs picked up from me, my mixed breed would dislike other breeds too.

 

And I'm not a snob myself, by the way. I enjoy almost all breeds for what they are. My favorite breed, if any could be called such, is Marremma Sheepdogs, not Border Collies.

 

I've seen many, many anecedotes over the years from people who remark that Border Collies are the ultimate dog snob.

 

Border Collies are NOT just dogs, after all. There are breeds that are similiar; but the way Border Collies been bred, with attention to maintaining working characteristics, as opposed to pet or other bred dogs, sets them aside. I don't think it's outlandish to imagine that many Border Collies sense this difference and just plain don't like dogs that don't act like them.

 

I've seen the same snobbery from other highly specialized breeds like toys and other working or sporting breeds. My neighbor has hunting beagles and they completely ignore my dogs when they happen to cross paths (he has an old bitch he has retired "to the house" who goes for walks at the same time we do sometimes).

 

I don't think it's out in left field to think dogs can recognize dogs of their own breed and havde preferences for them. Heck, they've proven sheep can recognize and show preferences for faces, ovine and human, dog and other ruminant, familiar and strange, that exactly parallel the preferences commonly associated with "higher" thinking species. If a sheep can be that smart I think I'll give my dog the benefit of the doubt.

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You can't compare fine wine with grape juice...that along with the old adage "birds of a feather flock together" are a very good way to describe Border Collies. I don't think it's fitting to label it as breed snobbery, I think describing Border Collies as a breed with discriminating tastes is more appropriate. Border Collies aren't a breed to put up with nonsense from other, goofy, in your face breeds like labs and retrievers (and this is coming from a person who does like labs. I know they are a few nuggets short of a Happy Meal and they do tend to be a very wiggly, in your face dog); each BC has its own unique way of dealing with these dogs, whether it be a polite one or not.

 

If people would understand that not everyone brings their dog to a dog park to socialize and play with other dogs there and they bring them there to be able to run off leash in a big, enclosed area and have more room to chase after thrown balls; then dog parks would be a lot better place. I know when I go to dog parks it's usually to allow my dogs to do just that; if I want them to play with other dogs, I will arrange play dates with owners of dogs I know they like to play with and get along with.

 

I honestly can't blame a BC for getting annoyed with a dog that keeps getting in its face to invite them to play despite repeated signals from the BC that it doesn't want to play; and I would politely ask the owner to get their dog away from mine and if that didn't work, not be as polite, and ultimately remove my dog from the situation and go somewhere else. With kids, if your kid was happily playing in the park alone and other kids were bugging them about playing or being a bully; you'd probably do pretty much the same thing.

 

I don't see it as BCs thinking they are better than other breeds or see playing with other dogs as descending from upon high to mingle with commoners, but on the other hand generally BCs are happiest playing with other BCs because they play and interact with each other the same way.

 

As stated above by another poster, each breed has its own unique traits that govern the way they do pretty much anything. There are breeds known for being really friendly and playful to and with anyone, breeds known for being a one person dog and having a stronger need for a close knit pack existence, breeds known for being more aggressive and less sociable, and everything in between. There is something out there suit everyone; not every breed is perfect for every situation. I personally have several different breeds and types of dogs I like; my preferences are for medium sized or big working dogs that are highly intelligent (this is the reason I've had three BCs even though I didn't have the best luck with the first two..I had a GSD mix years before) and most German breeds of dogs. But I also like some smaller and not quite as smart breeds because of how affectionate they are: labs, retrievers and Boston Terriers to name a few. The only breeds I really can't stand are "foo foo" dogs of any size: Shitzus, Lhasa Apsos, Yorkies, poodles, etc.

 

But I don't think you're entirely off base. It is possible and some owners do transmit their own fear, hatred, etc. of other dogs to their dog as well as of other things. For example, if your dog gets scared by bits of debris being blown around outside by the wind; your own reaction to the same thing would have a large factor in helping the dog get over its fear. If you allow the dog to freak out every time and never do anything to correct it or even encourage the behavior, it will continue it. But if you walk up confidently to the item and say to the dog in a confident voice "see, it's not going to hurt you" and move up to walking the dog past it, you will eventually show your dog there's nothing to be scared of.

 

You can apply the same thing to a fear or uncertainty of other dogs, you just have to pay close attention to your dog's warning signs and comfort level and not rush your dog into meeting new dogs. As with people, not every dog is going to like every other dog it meets. And some dogs aren't going to like any dogs period. My first BC got scared by any new dog she met at first and would also growl at bigger dogs when she first saw them; but after she met the dogs under controlled and supervised situations, they became really good playmates regardless of size, breed or gender. The only exception to this was a large, aggressive and poorly socialized Akita that I kept her away from because the dog had bad issues with other dogs, that mostly generated from being kept on the balcony of a two bedroom apartment all day except for a few walks around the complex daily.

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This thread makes me think of our old Border Collie, Rocket. Once, while he was working cattle on the second farm we owned, the tenants' German Shepherd jumped him. Rocket sent the GSD packing.

 

For years after, Rocket would get aggressive around GSDs. Rocket was a dog that was no problem around virtually any other dog but a GSD.

 

As an "elder dog", while he was tied outside the bookstore where I worked while my daughter (whom he lived with) was in buying her books, I glanced out to see him under his bush, hackles up and looking ready for defense.

 

Then I saw a GSD cross, about fifty feet or so away, also tied up. That dog was obviously the object of Rocket's "interest" and apprehension.

 

But wait, there's more. At this point in life, Rocket (who had been shot when young and partially blind most of his life) was almost totally blind at this time. And, the other dog was tied so that there was not a clear view of him anyway from Rocket's location.

 

Now, could he tell the dog's breed by scent? The dog was not all GSD by appearance. Not only discriminating by sight, at this point in life, Rocket was obviously discriminating by scent.

 

I believe animals are particularly perceptive. We just think we are.

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Guest Wolverine

I know I am going to catch Hell for this, but I have to state that I agree with some of the points ToffeesDad makes. Effective socialization is a skill that is learned, not an endemic trait. A dog will respond to its training, and that training will guide its actions. All of my dogs were specifically trained to socialize with other dogs; and of all the dogs I have had, only my English Springer Spaniel did not get along with other dogs.

 

With that said, ToffeesDad, I do not believe that BC owners (nor any others devoted to a specific breed) are necessarily snobs. I note that there is a strong tendency on this board to view BC's as working dogs. As such, the training of the dogs is geared toward the work ethic, to take advantage of the characteristics of the breed. (My Annie was selected as a companion, so my training regimen is much more oreinted toward home and family skills, while still ensuring that I accommodate her need for hyperactivity through play. Because of her training, she greets any dog she meets with enthusiasm, and backs off only if the other dog is overly aggressive.) Watch work-trained BC's in action; you will note that for the most part, they work alone, and so do not have a great need for socilaizing with other dogs as part of their work ethic. (Flyball is the obvious exception...LOL)

 

In the end, I believe that it boils down to how the dog is trained, and for what purpose. As a general statement, those who have had multiple Border Collies are purists (and, no, that is not intended as an insult) who focus on a particular capability in the breed, and develop it accordingly. But I do not believe that this leads to an adverse attitude toward other breeds. In my experience, BC owners are dog lovers just like everyone else who owns a dog; and when most have an opportunity to meet another dog, they do so with love and enthusiasm.

 

But then again, that is only my opinion...

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So I'm a snob and so are my dogs! Wolverine, while I agree that socialization is trained, and both my dogs act correctly social with respect to other correctly social dogs (they don't try to mount or paw at and are not aggressive to other dogs), they only play with and acknowledge other border collies.

 

We visit the dog beach and dog park weekly and I watch Rob "working" other breed dogs that are chasing balls. But it is not play, he just wants to move them where he wants them to go. Briar plays ball or swims.

 

Until another border collie comes walking up the beach that is all they do. The minute they recognize another border collie they will run up, play bow and the real games begin. I hear the same from other BC owners when we meet up.

 

My daughter brings her pit/lab mix over, Kaya whorships the ground Rob Dog walks on, but he can't really be bothered. But my friend brings over her BC and they turn the house upside down playing.

 

Like I said I guess we're snobs.

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We're not saying BC's are not socialized and therefore don't like interacting with other dogs because of that. Quite the contrary in my case, as all of my dogs and all of my previous fosters were very well socialized and could interact POLITELY with all breeds. *All* dogs need early socialization to further develop interaction skills, whether working or not. I'm sure no one, whether at a trial or on a farm or in a city park, wants a dog who is aggressive towards other dogs b/c of lack of socialization.

 

Anyway, the point you made Wolverine is a good one re: social skills, but not the point the rest of us were trying to make re: preference of BC's. It's just like in people, just because I *don't* interact with you doesn't mean I *can't*, maybe it just means I don't want to. :rolleyes:

 

-Laura

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I think that labeling the phenomenon "breed snobbery" or "breed bigotry" is inaccurate, because that implies that dogs have the same kinds of biases and prejudices that humans do, and that simply isn't true. However, I think that

 

(a) it is true that dogs may prefer to socialize with other dogs whose body language and play styles are closer to their own and

 

(:rolleyes: that since Border Collies have been bred for behavioral characteristics, they are more likely to be characterized by stereotypical behaviors and therefore more likely to not "fit in" with other breeds of dogs that are no longer purpose bred and are therefore evolving toward a generic suite of pet dog behaviors.

 

You can absolutely positively affect how a dog relates to other dogs through selective breeding and in this sense, no, it is totally not true that dogs are dogs are dogs. If you have mostly had generic pet breed dogs you might feel that way. For example, fighting breeds were selected for extreme social intolerance of other dogs. Anyone who thinks you can take any pit bull and make a dog park dog out of it through "socialization" is smoking something. It happens sometimes, but more often it does not. Likewise, many hound breeds were selected for extreme social tolerance of other dogs, since they are commonly kept in packs. Try keeping a pack of pit bulls the same way you'd keep a pack of beagles, and you'll be coming home to a kennel full of dead and mangled dogs. These examples suggest that yes, there is a hard-wired element at work here. It is eminently possible to select for different social behaviors, which it would not be if there were no genetic variation underlying these behaviors. And therefore, it is not unlikely that different breeds are systematically distinct in terms of their social behavior.

 

Border Collies react to their environment in ways that if not unique among dogs, are somewhat idiosyncratic compared to many other dogs. They are highly attracted to movement. They are hard-wired to want to control it. They are exquisitely attuned to understanding and manipulating distances and space. Although my dogs will wrestle sometimes, they much prefer to chase each other and eye each other. One is extremely well socialized, the other was raised like a veal calf. They both hate dog parks and both despise being jumped on by dogs they don't know. On the other hand, they are fine with each other and my dog who is least tolerant of strange dogs can be extremely tolerant of dogs he knows and trusts, so it isn't simply that he's incapable of relating to other dogs. He just doesn't like them all the same amount, which is part of what we're saying here.

 

Since most Border Collies tend to be sensitive about space issues, they tend not to jump on each other and therefore, they get along better with each other than with dogs who are hard wired to be more physical when they play. They might not be identifying each other as members of the same breed (I don't think dogs have a concept of "breed" like we do) but they are certainly reading each others' body language and responding accordingly.

 

So no, it isn't all a matter of "socialization" or snobbery on the part of owners. You can, through training, modify a dog's behavior but there's always the matter of hard wiring that will limit the amount of modification you can do. This is why the expression "Dogs are dogs are dogs" is both inaccurate and facile. In a very generic sense, yes, dogs are dogs are dogs, but through selective breeding we've created a great deal of variation among breeds and some of that variation is related to behavior.

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My Cats are most definitely breed snobs. They don't care what Border Collies come into my house - they are always happy to see them, and that includes Border Collies they see for the very first time.

 

However, if I bring any other breed into the house they are pffffting, growling, hiding under the couch or in the bedroom, ready to do battle.

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Watch work-trained BC's in action; you will note that for the most part, they work alone, and so do not have a great need for socilaizing with other dogs as part of their work ethic.
This is not really true. I frequently work my dogs 2 at a time (as do most of the farmers with working sheepdogs around here) and we frequently help move a large flock of sheep with ~ 3 - 4 dogs. When I was in Ireland, I was told that they bring in the sheep from the hills with multiple dogs. My dogs will even work with dogs they do not know. Without fail, the dogs work well together. This always surprises me because my female is snarly with dogs in "social" situations, but never when working. I always comment that she likes a "man with a job," but I think there's more to it than that - she simply has no patience for "frivalousness." The "boys" are generally more tolerant of other dogs, but aren't really interested in playing with unfamiliar dogs (and don't really play with each other either). This is similar to my experiences with other border collies; but keep in mind that the dogs I know well are (like mine) primarily working/country dogs and not socialized like city/suburban border collies (e.g., in dog parks).

 

Kim

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Originally posted by Wolverine:

Effective socialization is a skill that is learned, not an endemic trait. A dog will respond to its training, and that training will guide its actions. All of my dogs were specifically trained to socialize with other dogs; and of all the dogs I have had, only my English Springer Spaniel did not get along with other dogs.

Although I don't plan to get into this discussion, for lack of time, I would suggest you be VERY careful before you take stands on the nature versus nurture argument. Unless you suddenly became the only expert in the world to unravel the mystery that is dog, you cannot say for certain that all behaviour is learned. Because I can give you a thousand examples of it being hardwired. As far as the "experts" know, nature AND nurture both play an integral part in the development of most species of animals.

 

RDM

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Guest Wolverine

As I originally stated, I knew I was going to catch Hell for offering my opinion; so be it.

 

Cheri, please show me in my post where I said you, or other BC owners, are snobs. As I recall, I specifically stated that "I do not believe that BC owners...are necessarily snobs." So if you are going to respond to my posts, at least get your facts straight.

 

MrSnappy, your point is well-taken. There are, as you note, some characteristics that are considered "hard-wired" in many breeds; but, as I note, a great deal of behavior can be instilled through training. With that said, I acknowledge your viewpoint; what I do not acknowledge is your condescending, holier-than-thou attitude in making your point.

 

And that's all I have to say about this topic...

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I don't know if Finn is a snob or not, but he is absolutely MAD for any black and white dog he sees. This may be because they resemble his mother, who he sees weekly, so he's never forgotten who she is; he knows that's his mother. But he doesn't have to see the crouch or the eye - he's interested based solely on the black and white pattern, from what I can tell. I have not had the opportunity to see if he would react the same to, say, a harlequin Dane as to a BC, and to date I've not had a chance to mingle him with a different-colored BC to see if he still goes wild, nor with a B&W Aussie or something similar in general size and coat to a BC. (He did urinate on a blue merle Aussie once - not quite sure how to interpret THAT, to be honest.)

 

Finn is generally friendly and interested in dogs, but he's clearly more interested in the B&W ones. If I see a favorite non-BC dog belonging to a pal, he is interested in that dog, but not as interested (at least initially) as he is in B&W dogs who belong to perfect strangers. So if he were reading my cues, presumably he'd be indifferent to the stranger's B&W dog, but interested in the friend's non-B&W dog. In the long run he makes his own decisions about which dogs he likes on an individual basis, but at first glance he's all about the black and white.

 

I know for certain that I do something similar - it's not that uncommon for me to meet a new client who reminds me of someone I've known in the past, and to notice that my initial inclinations toward them have something to do with who they remind me of. For instance, I have a client who reminds me of one of my brothers, and I tend to feel friendly towards him - not for anything he's done, but because he reminds me of my brother. I don't think he IS my brother, and I don't think he's a better person because he reminds me of my brother, but his resemblance does trigger the general warm/friendly feeling I have toward my brother, whether I want it to or not. So I start out feeling kindly toward him, but where the interaction goes after that is based on the CLIENT'S behavior (etc), not my brother's. In similar fashion, Finn's initial reaction is to be excited by B&W dogs, and as he goes along he makes his choices about who he likes. His best pals are all BC's, though, and that includes in my own household - he's just less interested in Kenzie (though he likes her well enough) than he is in Ali and Pepper (and even little atypical Buddy, when he was alive). Pepper, who is the most like him, is his favorite. That may be because she's an Older Woman (the little pervert), but I suspect it's because her demeanor is the most like his, so they "click". Pepper belongs to the BF and is only with us for visits, so she isn't around all the time, and when she does show up she immediately kicks him one notch down the hierarchy, but she's still his favorite. In free play in wide-open space, the dogs break down into two groups: the Kenzie-Ali group, and the Finn-Pepper group.

 

I'm sure my dogs do read my cues about other dogs (and people) I see, but I'm also sure they have their own opinions and preferences. Finn is the most obvious of my dogs in this regard, but the others all show some of the same thing - Pepper likes BCs more than other breeds, and Kenzie - who LOVES big dogs - will, if offered several small and large dogs to choose from, check out the Westies first. (It must be noted that Kenzie, who was reared around Pepper and Buddy, does like other BCs quite a lot, maybe because she's used to their antics. She'll follow Pepper anywhere.) Ali I've had less opportunity to observe, but time will tell. Anyway, just my observations about my little gang - who need to be let in from the yard and wormed, so I guess I'd better get going.

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My BC doesn't like anyone unless they are running...then it's chase time.

My foo-foo dog (sorry Pippin..I had to!) is a Papillon and he will only associate with other small white dogs. He goes crazy over other Paps.

Bring a white fluffy dog over and he becomes Mr Social. It is quite funny. My other 2 Foo-Foo's..a toy poodle and a hairless chinese crested could care less either way. Finally my terrier just hangs with the BC. She is very fussy who she likes but it is not breed specific.

She has hated a boxer, german shephard and terrier all the same. So maybe it is dog specific not breed specific.

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Jen--

 

To each her own . That is funny that the Papillion only likes small, white dogs.

 

I grew up around a variety of dogs: Dobermanns (my stepmother's), Great Danes, GSDs (my own dog), boxers and the various beagles, bassett hounds, chihuahuas, rat terriers, and poodles my grandmothers had. I only liked the beagles out of those; the others weren't my kind at all. I got a love of big or medium rugged working breeds early on.

 

I have a friend that has two massive mixes: one is a boxer and bull mastiff mix and the other is an Irish wolfhound/briard and lab mix. I am five feet five inches tall and even with having long legs, that dog comes well past my waist and he's not even full grown yet. I'll have to post a picture of them if I can find one. They are big dogs but they are both sweet; they are also both rescue dogs she adopted. One was abandoned at her vet and I'm not sure how she got the other one.

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My Papillon grew up with a pair of Bichons, but they were apparently couch potatos and didn't socialize with him much. When I brought Skeeter home he would avoid other dogs, sort of shying away from them and hiding behind me. In all other respects he is extremely ballsy and outgoing.

 

Since he's been here he has learned to play with Fly and even managed to convince Solo that he needs his ears cleaned sometimes. I've noticed that he doesn't shy away from as many dogs in general as he used to, and that he actively walks up and greets Border Collies now. Both of my dogs have classic markings so it may also be a color pattern thing, I don't know.

 

One of our problems now is that when Skeeter attracts the attention of a dog he's not sure about, he will often run over and hide behind Solo instead of hiding behind me. I suppose he now trusts Solo to provide "muscle" but it's not the greatest idea to bring strange dogs over to Solo.

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Cherokee is definatly a SNOB, she wont actually try to fight with other non border collie dogs but will just wrinkle her lip at them, my sister has a rottie/lab cross and for the record the most annoying dog I have ever ever met, and Cherokee will actually either refuse to get out of the truck when we go to her house or if the dog comes to our house Cherokee will actually go kennel herself, and will tell you to shut the door. When my sister brings her border collie over Cher will atually play with him.

Spott on the other hand his best buddie is a dauchshound/jack russel and sheltie cross, and will play with who ever hapens to be around.

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A while back on another border collie board that I lurk on, the subject was brought up about boxers (the 4-legged variety) and border collies----that many boxers do not like border collies. I know a lot of non-bc breeds are disturbed by the way a bc moves and uses it's eyes, but boxers react in a hostile manner----had anyone else noticed this?

 

I sat up and took notice of the subject because less than a week before, three boxers, in a dog park full of dogs, jumped one of my border collies. It also happened one other time afterwards with a different boxer and another one of my dogs. A friend of mine who runs her bc in agility said her dog was jumped by a boxer at an agility trial---and I talked to a boxer rescue who took in a border collie as a rescue, but couldn't keep it because the boxers did not like the dog.

 

Up until the time I read someone else's thought on the subject, I thought it was the luck of the draw for us---just a series of bad events that happened to include boxers. Now I think it really is more than just a set of coincidences, and I avoid my dogs socializing with boxers---er, the 4-legged kind.

 

 

Vicki

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First off, I am not calling people snobs, I'm using that word because I've heard it used so freely when speaking about dogs discounting/disliking a breed other than their own.

Now as far as a dog reconizing a breed, it's not possible. A dog will notice similar markings or size to themselves but don't forget, humans created breeds, not nature. Dogs within a pack will pick on the "odd" dog because that's what canines do within a pack setting so it's not breed snobbery as much as it is the dog picking on or discounting a dog that is "different" from themselves or dogs they are used to being around.

I know many people dissagree but as responsible dog owners, we cannot attach human emotions and feelings to our animals. It leads to many problems and misunderstandings.

 

Once again if you think I'm way in left field please let me know.

 

Matt

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