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Chris B

Bella just snapped at a childs face.... comments appreciated

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Originally posted by bob aaron:

If you don't like me or what I say, fine. But don't outright assume you know me or what I've been through with my dogs, please. OK?

Bob, have I ever implied that I "didn't like you?" If so, please show me the quote that suggests that. If not, please don't make outright assumptions about what I feel, please. OK?

 

And please don't condescend to me either.

 

Melanie may not feel up to telling you how offensive your comment appeared, but I am happy to tell you. She took the time and effort to write a coherent, detailed, important post that contributed significantly to the SUBJECT thread - which was fear aggression in dogs and ways to manage it or approach management of it. She shared her experiences with her own dog as an example.

 

You, in sharp contrast, replied with a single sentence with 8 thousand exclamation marks affixed to the end of it, suggesting that it was positively ridiculous that anyone would need to have their dog under the care of a behaviourist for 3.5 years.

 

I believe that incredulousness WAS your intent when you wrote the one liner. It's hard to imagine what else it might have been, besides inflammatory.

 

If you don't understand the power of excessive punctuation in written communication, maybe use it more judiciously and you may not get misinterpretted (if you were in fact misinterpretted, and I don't think you were). If you are in too much of a rush to respond with something useful, perhaps delay responding until you have the time to post something thoughtful.

 

You had nothing useful to say to the original poster, you had only a derogatory one liner to post to Melanie ... who DID, in fact, have something useful to offer the original poster and the thread in general.

 

THAT is why your post came across so offensively.

 

RDM

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Originally posted by MrSnappy:

quote:
Originally posted by bob aaron:

If you don't like me or what I say, fine. But don't outright assume you know me or what I've been through with my dogs, please. OK?

Bob, have I ever implied that I "didn't like you?" If so, please show me the quote that suggests that. If not, please don't make outright assumptions about what I feel, please. OK?

 

^^Yes, it's obvious you don't like me. So be it. I'm uninterested in being right. I was never mean or sarcastic. Please stop.

 

 

 

And please don't condescend to me either.

 

Melanie may not feel up to telling you how offensive your comment appeared, but I am happy to tell you. She took the time and effort to write a coherent, detailed, important post that contributed significantly to the SUBJECT thread - which was fear aggression in dogs and ways to manage it or approach management of it. She shared her experiences with her own dog as an example.

 

You, in sharp contrast, replied with a single sentence with 8 thousand exclamation marks affixed to the end of it, suggesting that it was positively ridiculous that anyone would need to have their dog under the care of a behaviourist for 3.5 years.

 

I believe that incredulousness WAS your intent when you wrote the one liner. It's hard to imagine what else it might have been, besides inflammatory.

 

If you don't understand the power of excessive punctuation in written communication, maybe use it more judiciously and you may not get misinterpretted (if you were in fact misinterpretted, and I don't think you were). If you are in too much of a rush to respond with something useful, perhaps delay responding until you have the time to post something thoughtful.

 

You had nothing useful to say to the original poster, you had only a derogatory one liner to post to Melanie ... who DID, in fact, have something useful to offer the original poster and the thread in general.

 

THAT is why your post came across so offensively.

 

RDM

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My two cents worth.....I have never read anything Mr. Aaron has written as being condescending in any way. I have always read his replies as help from an experienced BC owner/trainer. I completely see how Mr. Aaron was expressing astonishment at how long Melanie's dog needed bevaviour therapy....not that he questioned the length, just that he had never experienced the same thing. I, too, was astonished, but I am but an amateur dog owner. I do know one thing for sure...the length of this thread is also astonishing. This thread has more replies than the threads requesting info or mere stories that owners wish to share. That, in and of itself, speaks volumes. Let's not beat a dead horse here. Let us move on to more constructive things and not continue to speak derogatives about one another. To quote a now famous quip from Americana..."Can't we all just get along?" Mr. Aaron I have sent you a private message requesting answers to a situation I have. Thanks for any input you have.

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Originally posted by MrSnappy:

Originally posted by bob aaron:

[qb] If you don't like me or what I say, fine. But don't outright assume you know me or what I've been through with my dogs, please. OK?

Bob, have I ever implied that I "didn't like you?" If so, please show me the quote that suggests that. If not, please don't make outright assumptions about what I feel, please. OK?

 

And please don't condescend to me either.

 

^^^ How did I condescend to you? You are re-quoting ME with condescension and sarcasm.

 

Melanie may not feel up to telling you how offensive your comment appeared, but I am happy to tell you.

 

^^Melanie did fine just on her own thank you very much, Snap.

 

 

She took the time and effort to write a coherent, detailed, important post that contributed significantly to the SUBJECT thread - which was fear aggression in dogs and ways to manage it or approach management of it. She shared her experiences with her own dog as an example.

 

^ And I didn't mention anything about it did I?

 

You, in sharp contrast, replied with a single sentence with 8 thousand exclamation marks affixed to the end of it, suggesting that it was positively ridiculous that anyone would need to have their dog under the care of a behaviourist for 3.5 years.

 

^^Seriously, are you moronic? I did NO such thing. I have explained this several times already and apologised for any confusion. Do you have cotton in your ears, Slappy?

 

 

 

 

I believe that incredulousness WAS your intent when you wrote the one liner. It's hard to imagine what else it might have been, besides inflammatory.

 

^^ I TOLD you over and over again what it was. What else can I do? Who are YOU to call me a LIAR?

 

If you don't understand the power of excessive punctuation in written communication, maybe use it more judiciously and you may not get misinterpretted (if you were in fact misinterpretted, and I don't think you were).

 

^^ First off, you have too many t's in misinterpreted. Stop it. You're rude, and insulting. You're NOT the God of border collies, or dog training or anything. It is YOU who is being obnoxious. Do you own the thoughts on this list?

 

If you are in too much of a rush to respond with something useful, perhaps delay responding until you have the time to post something thoughtful.

 

^^Who are you? Are YOUR thoughts worthier than mine? Have you read any of my other posts?

 

You had nothing useful to say to the original poster, you had only a derogatory one liner to post to Melanie ... who DID, in fact, have something useful to offer the original poster and the thread in general.

 

^^Oh, is that so? Border Collie expert. I wasn't replying to the original poster, son, I was responding to MELANIE'S post. DUH! And I've already explained my "one liner" ten times over. Did you NOT hear it?

NOT useful? Tell that to the 10 folks who have privately emailed me from THIS list.

 

THAT is why your post came across so offensively.

 

^^T0 YOU, and apparently to you and Melanie only.

 

I'll leave the list now, which was OBVIOUSLY your objective, so you could convince all others of YOUR ideas.

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Guest Wolverine

So much for a truce... :rolleyes:

 

Where is a Moderator (or preferably in this case, a hockey referee) when you need one?

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Chris B - good for you in realizing there is a problem and being dedicated to your dog. I think you're already in the right direction.

 

My dog Ginger has (what I now know as) fear aggression issues. Until I came to this board I never really knew anyone else with a dog in a similar situation. I have just worked with her doing what little I knew, and have had good results - but we still have to be diligent. I wish you guys the best of luck and perseverance.

 

It seems to me that fear aggression is sort of like (here comes analogy time) having diabetes or [insert chronic illness here]. It isn't unusual to have to treat it for the remainder of your life (in different levels of intensity of course for different situations). You manage it, and many times you live a wonderful and productive life despite it. Every now and then someone may beat it, but it seems to just linger in the background. But, because of love you would do anything to make it better, and you stay the course. However, Melanie and RDM, and many others on this board could really share so much more than I, and could put it more eloquently.

 

BcBob, I have to say that Melanie and RDM are not the only ones who feel that way. When I read this phrase:

 

^^Do you mean he has been under treatment for nearly 3.5 yrs.?!!!!!!

 

there were many things I could infer from this type of question, mostly negative. After reading this I felt frustrated, angry, and somewhat belittled. Shoot, I've been working with Ginger for almost 5 years now, and she's not "cured". Does that make me or her inadequate? I don't think so. The nature of that question, however, could imply so simply by its tone and lacking in qualifying information.

 

Had the statement read, "My experience with fear aggression in my dogs has been...." or said, "Is 3.5 years or more a typical time frame I should expect for rehabilitation or training for fear aggression?", etc and so on, maybe feelings would have been different.

 

However, after reading your further posts I realize I cannot really decifer your true intent, so I'll just take that statement as a request for more information (see above analogy).

 

Anyway, Chris, please hang in there, and do let us know of the progress, will you?

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Thank you all for taking the time to share your experiences and suggestions.

I have read them all very carefully and found them to be informative and inspirational.

I'm already more relaxed about the situation and i'm ready to tell people "Don't pet the dog!"

 

It sounds like most people feel a behaviorist is a good idea, and I have mailed Patricia McConnell at Dog's Best Friend. I'll keep you informed on how it goes.

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I found the post in question to be offensive, and it wasn't even directed at me. To be fair, this particular user has posted some helpful things; but I have seen several posts of theirs where they have stepped on people's toes and been rude. In my personal opinion, that was a pretty obnoxious user who was a little over dramatic about most things. It seems to me that most of their posts fall into that category rather than trying to do anything else.

 

And this is the second thread I've seen that's been taken completely off topic by this person (that is, away from the original post) to quote everything under the sun said in the thread and to argue with various other users and to go on and on about one topic. The other one I've seen was the most notable:

 

http://bordercollie.heatherweb.com/cgi-bin...6604;p=2#000059

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Man, are you guys rabid or something? How many times does the guy have to appologize?

 

So a thread or two went off topic - like that's never happened before.

 

Maybe he's got some strong opinions on things, who on these boards doesn't?

 

I happen to know at least five people, trainers as well as behaviorist who might also have been amazed that she was still having to go back after three and half years. Not necessarily because the dog wasn't "cured" but because one would think she would be able to deal with it on her own by now. I happen to have read Melanies posts about her dog before and understand that he might be a special case, but new people haven't. It was an honest question.

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Sometimes people are in therapy for lots longer than 3-1/2 years. Without exclamation points.

 

My cousin was a dog trainer and behaviorist who had an amazing following of clients. I know because I met most of them at the hospice - with their dogs - when he was loosing his battle with cancer. He lay in the hospital bed with dogs piled on him. Including mine who had never met any of the others and rarely gets on a bed.

 

He had arranged for homes for two of his dogs. But he had also arranged that the third would be euthanized and cremated with him. Because that dog had come to him with such serious issues that, although he had them completely under control, he did not have anyone to whom he could comfortably pass the responsibility of that particular dog.

 

This was not an easy decision for him. Luckily, he had the time to make the decision. And he knew what decision he had to make.

 

Not all problems can be cured in "five easy lessons".

 

And sometimes a question is lots nicer as a question, not as a hyper-interobang.

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Nancy, I'm not arguing with anything you said, in fact I agree. The point is that he appologized and for some reason no one can let it go.

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What's the point of an apology if it isn't sincere?

 

For those with reading comprehension problems:

 

I do deal with Solo on my own. When I used the phrase "under treatment" I mean (as I already explained) that Solo is not "cured" and that I am still managing him and practicing behavior modification with him, not that we are continually going back for appointments after 3.5 years. I thought that much would be obvious from my last post, not to mention the gazillion posts I've already made about him on these boards in the past, but I guess I expected too much.

 

Solo's behaviorist is married to my academic advisor and so I have much more access to her than most people would. And yes, I do communicate with her regularly (unless you think it would be more appropriate if I pretended she weren't there when I walk into my lab at school and she's in my advisor's office) but that is because we know each other socially. Solo has had exactly three formal appointments and she's seen him on a number of occasions other than that but again, it's because we know each other socially.

 

Frankly, if an owner has the time and resources to maintain a relationship with a behaviorist and have his or her dog seen more than once or twice I can't see how that's a bad thing. Unlike some other people, apparently, I don't think I know everything, and I recognize that even after after 3.5 years I still have a lot to learn. Solo's behaviorist has worked with hundreds if not thousands of patients, many with problems worse than Solo's, and I don't understand how it could be a bad thing to keep communicating with her and benefitting from her knowledge and expertise. I'm not trying to win a pissing contest, I'm not trying to win some "Lone Trainer" award, and I think rugged individualism is nice and all that but I don't see the point in ignoring a resource that's both valuable and right in front of my face.

 

The fact that Shawna apparently knows at least five other judgmental busybodies means nothing. Who gets to decide how long the statute of limitations on behaviorist visits lasts? Exactly how many appointments should one have before one knows it all? When exactly does "compassionate understanding" expire and get replaced by "incredulous contempt?" Is it a sign of weakness somehow to seek help for a difficult problem? In other words, even if I were bringing Solo back for weekly appointments -- so the hell what? What if he needed them? What if I wanted to? Who are you to say "too much, too much"? Sorry -- this is about personal choices, and it's between me and my dog, and no one else.

 

I'll tell you what, Shawna -- I'll see your five incredulous "trainers and behaviorists" (you must live in behaviorist central -- there's only something like twenty board-certified vet behaviorists in North America, if that many) and raise them ten or twenty people who can't believe I didn't just take Solo out back and shoot him instead of working with him at all. So I guess if we're playing the numbers game, they must be right and I'm REALLY a fool. But you know, Solo's sitting here with his head on my knee and a ball in his mouth and his tail wagging, and so I really don't care if people think I'm an idiot because whatever it takes, I've got my dog and he's got me.

 

To Chris B, hang in there, do what you have to do, love your dog, and don't let anyone make you feel shitty about working with her. There is no fixed schedule for a cure. There are no absolutes. Every dog is an individual. Every owner has to find a balance that he or she feels comfortable with between trying to fix the dog and learning to live with the dog. I can tell you that even though the behavior modification feels hard in the beginning, it becomes second nature to the point where it's just part of your routine with your dog. Solo will never enjoy cocktail parties, but he can do a whole lot of other stuff that I never thought he'd be able to do, and that for that matter many "normal" dogs lack the manners and wherewithal to do, like come to a crowded Home Depot with me last Sunday to run errands, and earn his first agility title on Halloween, and work sheep. And it doesn't even feel like a big deal anymore. That's the goal -- for the dog to be able to be "just another dog."

 

Patricia McConnell is one of the best. You'll be in good hands. Good luck.

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Apperantly, Melanie, you misunderstood my post. I backed you up.

 

I was meaning that without knowing all the other posts you have posted (which Bob didn't) the one at the beginning of this thread could be taken as a bit of a surprise since dogs like Solo aren't the norm. I stated that I had read your other posts, I wasn't surprised - you have a special case - I'm sorry that wasn't clear enough for you.

 

As for my statement about the trainers and behaviorists, it was an altogether. I know many trainers, deary, and yes, lo and behold I even know a behaviorist! And since they see far more dogs that come around much easier and your post wasn't exactly a diary of Solos life, they might wonder without further details.

 

Also my remarks about being rabid weren't about you. You made your statement and that was fine. There are others on this board who love to go about attacking people. And who are you to say whether or not the appology wasn't sincere, are you psychic too?

 

Get a grip!

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Glad to hear I am not the only one who tells people not to pet my dog. I just wish my family and in-laws understood this, but they all think "Oh, a dog! Let the kids play with the dog!" *sigh* Tess is not that kind of dog. Tess just wants to go her own way -- like me.

 

I'm glad for this thread, it gives me something to quote to my family. "There are all these people with dogs who don't like {_____)... they manage the issues by AVOIDING (_____)."

 

Imagine that. Common sense prevails. :rolleyes:

 

Allie & Tess

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I do deal with Solo on my own. When I used the phrase "under treatment" I mean (as I already explained) that Solo is not "cured" and that I am still managing him and practicing behavior modification with him, not that we are continually going back for appointments after 3.5 years. I thought that much would be obvious from my last post, not to mention the gazillion posts I've already made about him on these boards in the past, but I guess I expected too much.
When I read that post I questioned the wording also. But after reading and thinking about it I decided that my Raven has been in treatment for all her 5 years of life.

She was never socialized as a pup (lived in a farmers kennel till 10 months) then lived in my closet unless we were working sheep for 10 or so more months(her choice not mine). I will never trust her around anything, be it humans or dogs. But, I do trust her training and the above posts made me realize that I have been "managing" her condition the whole time I've had her.

It is second nature to her and I now. Not hard, and not time consuming.

I didn't realize what comes naturally to me may be considered "treatment" to "normal" dog owners, but that is what it is.

I don't baby my girl, I have strict rules for her and I to follow and I make sure both are parts are taken care of. If I see children or adults racing up to pet the pretty puppy I step up and stop them. "she bites" will do the trick everytime. In the last few years of owning her she has really made some progress in her "treatment", she will seek attention from strangers, she will tolerate kids petting her (even if her eyes look like they are going to pop out her head) but I would never let these things happen without my strict attention. the more I expect of her the more she gives.

Guess my answer is:

These things can be managed and the dog can be spared. It isn't hard if your a dog nut like those on this list. Go anywhere you like for help, just get it.

I love my Raven and don't give a rats butt if we can't be one of those lovey dovey dogs to strangers. We live a very happy life, thank you very much! Funny thing is I now have an overly friendly BC who has not met a stranger or animal(dog,cat or any other small animal, other than sheep;) that he doesn't love. I always wanted a dog like that. Now I find myself asking people to pet my poor puppy (who is big and so friendly he sort of scares them)so he won't think they don't like him.

Damn....thought I had it licked! Now I find I like the shyer ones better!;)Who wants all those people around your dog anyways?

 

Live and let live...hard to do on this list

Good luck Chris, You have a good start!

Kristen

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One important issue pertaining to this thread has not been discussed -- the potential liability the owner would incur if his/her dog (which had prior biting/aggression issues) were to ever seriously injure someone. I don't have time to do the research, but in today's litigious society I suspect that monetary damage awards could be very large. Does the dog owner have liability insurance coverage as part of a homeowner's policy? What is the liability limit of the policy? Does the policy say anything about covering a dog with known aggressive tendencies? Does the owner have an "umberella liability policy?"

 

No matter how much a person loves a dog, it would be hard to justify getting hit with a huge damage judgement (try $1,000,000) because of the dog's agressive behavior. If the dog did seriously injure a child, and if it were proven that the owner previously knew about the dog being aggressive, then that would set the stage for a major award of monetary damages.

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Hector, you bring up an interesting point about liability and owner responsiblity.

After I had calmed down from the initial shock and the concern for both the little boy and Bella, I started to think what would have happened to me and my wife if Bella had bit the child's face.

I have no idea of the level of coverage I have for this type of event, but I will be investigating.

A big concern for me is that I am currently going through a residence status change (I'm English, but have been living in Chicago for 3 years with my American wife) and Bella's behavior could get me a criminal record (this would cause big problems). I'm not over familar with US law. Is it possible that I can get a record from this type of event?

 

I'm going to do everything possible to remove Bella from situations and I am going to get professional help so I feel I am making the effort to work with the problem, but as you say, if something did happen in the future and it is proved that I was aware that it could happen... What then?

 

Maybe local law enforcement views that any dog that may bite should be put down.... I hope not.

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By Bella's "behavior" and

Is it possible that I can get a record from this type of event?
, are you referring to the incident that happened---the one which you described here on the boards?

 

If that's what you meant, no, you can't get a "record" from it. You can get a "record" if it was reported, but usually someone has to make a complaint. And it's not really US laws. They -- the laws vary from state to state, from municipality to municipality.

 

I would say, based on what I've read here, it's good to be aware of what Hector mentioned, however, don't become paranoid about it. You've already made the decision to see a behaviorist. And you sound like a responsible adult. Now that you've had your warning, based on the advice given here, I have no doubt that you'll act accordingly and just take the proper precautions. Common sense. That's all it is. It doesn't sound like you have some uncontrollable slathering beast on your hands. I know what she did was a shock to you, but again, consider yourself fortunate that it happened the way it did.

 

Apparently quite a few people here live with dogs that have "issues", probably even worse than Bella's, and they are managing quite well.

 

My advice is to relax. What might have happened, didn't.

 

I also wouldn't go to the insurance co. and tell them something like: "I have a border collie who bites". You can investigate numbers quite discreetly without tipping off some insurance co. that there is another breed to place on their "bad dogs" lists.

 

Relax.

 

Vicki

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Guest Wolverine

Chris B, please keep in mind that you are reading people's opinions (including mine), and are therefore by their nature not necessarily authoritative. With that in mind, however, several good points have been raised with respect to potential consequences.

 

If Bella were to injure anyone, whether a child or not, you could be subject to civil suit. The cost of settlments in our litigious society in the US can be astronomical. I would suggest that you talk to your insurance agent. Many companies offer special liability riders if you have homeowners and car insurance with them (mine is $1,000,000). This would not only apply to your dog, but any other form of liability you might incur. For instance, if you were responsible for an accident in which a new fire truck was totaled, the odds are that your property damage coverage would not be enough to cover the cost, placing you in the situation of paying the balance out of your pocket; a blanket liability policy would cover the residual. Whether you have a dog or not, a liability rider is a good idea, and $1,000,000 will cover most exposures. Further, you do not need to tell the company why you want the rider, as it is a general liability rider to cover all types of liabilities.

 

As to criminal liability, you could be subject to criminal charges IF it could be shown that you knew the dog was a risk AND you took no action to protect the public, i.e., demonstrated a "willful disregard" for public safety. But you have received good advice from a number of people; following that advice would demonstrate positive intent, which should help shield you from any criminal charges. The key factor is not whether you knew of the potential; rather, it revolves around whether you took reasonable and effective steps to avert any threat to the public welfare. The degree to which law enforcement officials might feel a dog posed an inherent threat is (rightly or wrongly) in large part tainted by the stereotypical view of the breed; most law enforcement officials don't immediately view Border Collies as an ineherently vicious breed, so they are likely to be far more lenient than they would be with, say, a Pit Bull, Rottweiler, or Doberman. In the end, I would suggest that you should not concern yourself with criminal liability if you have taken reasonable and customary actions to protect the general public.

 

The potential of having to put the dog down in the event of a biting situation varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, right down to the local level. In my state, many communities have ordinances that provide for putting down "vicious" dogs; unfortunately, there are no clear and defined guidelines as to what constitutes a "vicious" dog, which has led to many controversies and legal battles in Connecticut. I would reiterate my comment above about stereotypical views of breeds as a factor, however; I don't think Bella has anything significant to worry about.

 

Now, please allow me to offer my own view. This may not coincide with what others have offered, and they may choose to disagree; so consider this as just one more opinion to add to the portfolio already provided, and use your own best judgment. DO NOT GIVE UP ON THIS DOG!!! The advice to enlist the services of a canine behaviorist is sound, and is worth following. You might also consider enrolling the dog in a training class, after first advising the school of the dog's situation; many have portions of their training devoted to socializing effectively with people and other animals. (My school does, and they have an excellent success rate with problem dogs.) My next bit of advice is something I would be resistant to doing myself except in exigent circumstances, but would resort to if necessary (and I KNOW this will bring howls of indignation and recriminations from others on this board): until you reach a point where you can trust the dog around other people, consider a humane and comfortable muzzle when you take the dog out in public. Also, have a groomer regularly manicure the dog's nails, to reduce the potential of an inadvertent scratch.

 

Whatever you choose to do, I would re-emphasize this point: DO NOT GIVE UP ON THIS DOG!!! Bella is part of your family now, and it sounds as if the dog is not a problem to you and yours.

 

The best of luck to you. Take care, and be well.

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There has been a lot of good information and dialogue on this topic. I will add a little bit more based on a personal experience that I had with my dog. My dog was attacked by three dogs while we were rollerblading in a public park. One of the dogs involved in this event had a previous history of biting people and killing cats. It was difficult to get anything done because each county and municipality in my state, NC, defines its own animal policies. After I made a lot of noise, the local authorities decided that this dog did fall under the state vicious dog laws and now must be confined to its yard. As I understand it, the dog must have bitten a human or killed an animal to qualify as vicious is NC. If it hadn't been for his previous history, "Soccer" would not have been considered vicious based solely on his participation in this event because Nellie was not killed - just banged up. Of course, county or municipal laws may be more strict and I'm sure that state laws differ in severity.

 

I would not go to your insurance company and tell them that your dog bites because your dog does not have a legal history of biting. You should however discretely inquire into your homeowner policy's liability coverage - this applies to anyone who has dogs, horses or other livestock that may potentially come into contact with other people. I know that I was asked about my dog and her history when I got my renter's insurance.

 

Your dog acted out once but she did not make contact with a person. Yes, you certainly need to be aware that this happened and that you need to manage the situation, but Bella did not commit a crime and you are taking the appropriate steps to deal with the situation.

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Originally posted by Chris B:

[QB] Hector, you bring up an interesting point about liability and owner responsiblity...

A big concern for me is that I am currently going through a residence status change (I'm English, but have been living in Chicago for 3 years with my American wife) and Bella's behavior could get me a criminal record (this would cause big problems). I'm not over familar with US law. Is it possible that I can get a record from this type of event?

 

Chris, bottom line is that he didn't bite so there is nothing to put in a record, still, forewarned is fore-armed. Last time I sought homeowners insurance quotes I was asked by several insurance companies a. Do I have any dogs, b. what breeds (when I replied BC mix and Queensland mix, one company insisted I reveal what they are mixed with!)and c.Have they ever bitten anyone.

 

Some insurers now refuse to offer policies to households that have pits, rotties and other breeds widely believed to have aggressive tendencies. The advice you received about making *discreet* inquiries is a good one. Don't give your name when making general inquiries.

 

I had an experience that was very similar to yours years ago when I had my rescued borzoi, Sly. He had first been adopted by a friend after the woman who had purchased him for show and breeding discovered he was blind in one eye at one year old.

 

We were at the park one day and a lady came up with her 3 year old to pet the doggie. He snapped at the child's face. Ever after I had to be vigilant about not allowing strangers or other dogs approach, and I can tell you, sometimes it was a full time job.

 

One day he was with me when we were visiting my friend who managed a pet store. We were standing at the counter chatting when my friend made a kind of grimace and I looked down and saw a guy starting to crouch down,to come face to face with my dog, and getting ready to rub his neck with both hands (the kiss of death where this dog was concerned!) I warned him politely that the dog is a biter and that he needed to leave him alone, then I turned back to finish what I was saying to my friend. Un beknownst to me the guy had decided to ignore my warning and next thing I know I hear a growl and in an instant Sly had grabbed this guy's face in his mouth, just for a moment, then immediately released it. The guy's glasses went flying, he fell back on his butt, then he jumps to his feet and...takes a boxing stance. I looked at my friend incredulously and said "Is he going to box my dog??!!" I told the guy, "look, I did warn you", and agreeing, he threw up his hands and backed off. Fortunately he hadn't been hurt,in fact Sly hadn't even broken the skin.

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Guest Wolverine

To the best of my knowledge, "Queensland Mix" is a euphemism sometimes used to describe the Australian Cattle Dog (also known as the Australian Heeler, Hall's Heeler, Queensland Heeler, and the Blue Heeler); this arises from the fact that the breed was itself created by mixing breeds (with some Dingo thrown in there as well). Australians have been experimenting for years with hardy cross-breeds that can perform working tasks under the harsh conditions that must often be faced in that country; the Kelpie and the Australian Sheepdog (often a Kelpie/BC mix, on rare occasion a Belgian or German Shepherd/BC mix; not to be confused with the Australian Shepherd) are other examples.

 

Others may have (and probably do have) better information on this subject than I do, however.

 

Yes, charming lady from the lovely Sothwest, it should have read "Kelpie", and has been corrected. Thank you for bringing it to my attention. At my advanced age, sometimes the connection between the brain and the fingers breaks down...

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Originally posted by Wolverine:

[QB] To the best of my knowledge, "Queensland Mix" is a euphemism sometimes used to describe the Australian Cattle Dog (also known as the Australian Heeler, Hall's Heeler, Queensland Heeler, and the Blue Heeler);

 

True. Here in the southwest US they are more commonly referred to as Queensland heelers rather than ACDs.

 

 

the Kewpie and the Australian Sheepdog (often a Kewpie/BC mix, on rare occasion a Belgian or German Shepherd/BC mix, not to be confused with the Australian Shepherd) are other examples.

 

 

Are you referring to the Kelpie?

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