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melandster

Food?

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I read somewhere that Purina was called the pet food to "DIE" for. Bad food really.

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I think ProPlan is the better end of Purina, but "chow", Beneful, the rest appear to be pure unadultered crap. I've heard dog chow called "crack for dogs".

 

JMO

 

Vicki

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I wouldn't recommend it. Have you looked at the ingredients? Well, even so, they may not seem that bad until you compare them with a really good one. The first ingredient should be meat, not corn, not by-product meal...a meat. But my motto is "if i can buy it was walmart or a grocery store then i dont want it". But that does NOT mean that all the foods in the pet stores are good either, but do some research on companies and their ingredients.

 

FYI: I was stunned when i read an article saying that with the food "kibbles and bits" that the dogs were showing up with phenobarbitol in their system but it wasnt listed on the ingredients. So after the FDA did some major investigating they found that kibbles and bits was using "meat" that had phenobarbitol in it. Okay, maybe that is not so alarming, what IS alarming is that the "meat" was euthanized dogs! yes, if you feed kibbles and bits, your dog is a canibal. Not to mention he has phenobarbitol in his system, depending on his metabolism as to how much, but anyway.

 

So now i steer clear of anything that is not human grade dog food. BUt if you still dont take the route of human grade, just make sure it says COMPLETELY what kind of "meat" it is your dog is eating. It should clearly say, Chicken, beef, or lamb, those are the safest for dogs.

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oh one more thing, i go off on tangents sometimes, and then miss my point completely. ha ha.

 

ANyway, proplan is a big vet kickback company. They pay vets BIG BUCKS to push their products. My vet refused to push proplan, despite the kickbacks...i just love my vet. She said she just couldnt in good conscience push it.

 

Vets get HUGE kick backs from Science diet too.

 

Let the buyer beware.

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In our puppy class we were warned about Beneful, saying it was the worst of worse. Piper has always eaten Lamb and Rice (different brands, started off with Iams and now is on Nutro (sp?) Lamb and Rice).

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We feed Fergie PetSmart's Advantage Lamb & Rice kibble. It can the closest to meeting the nutritional levels that this and the stockdog site recommended. It has no cornmeal and has good fat and protein percentages.

 

Yes, Fergie used to love Kibbles and Bits, Kibbles and Chunks, and all that junk. But she was totally happy to switch to this food.

 

Now, I was truely upset that, when we just returned from a fortnight in England's Yorkshire Dales, I couldn't bring her tripe or rabbit canned food. Last time (actually 4 times) we could. But the mad cow and hoof & mouth stuff prevents it now. Despite the fact that every animal in England seems to now have a thich stack of info that tracks every time it even moves.

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Yeah I got the word about the first ingredient being Meat and not a by - product a few years ago when I bought my cat. He is such a priss that he refuses to eat anything that has by-product. . . But this is My first dog

But I Can tell that Mel is not to into this food.. and niether am I.. . I don't like being pressured or guilted into a food.

So I'll do a little research and Look into BARF and RAW and other such foods and see what I can see.

 

Here are some photos of my girl

 

http://homepage.mac.com/sterlings/PhotoAlbum7.html

 

Sterling

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From what I understand, vets do not get a kickback or if anything, it's very minimal on the dog food that they sell. I'd don't think there is a big profit margin when it comes to dog food. Perhaps some do, but most don't.

 

That being said, add Science Diet to some of the foods I wouldn't feed my dog.

 

If your dog appears to be doing OK on some of the foods that have been mentioned, just think how much better s/he could do on a better food.

 

Vicki

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I've had numerous vets tell me Science diet is "pushed" on them to sell. I will not feed any of my animals that synthetic crap. The only time SD gets into my home is the ID formula because it works wonders on the dogs if they get a case of the "trots". And even then, it is only fed for 1-2 days.

 

When Daisy was very young, I tried Pro Plan with her for about a month. It was awful! She became very itchy, hot spots, and her coat looked awful. She's on the BARF diet now, and looks great. But Dale and Ari are both on Nutro. I switch the kind of Nutro every month or so for variety. Right now it's one of their "Natural" kinds. I also love the Wellness brand food, but money is tight right now, so I had to go back to Nutro.

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It's rather unnerving to me to have vetrinarians try to sell something that is not healthy to their patients because of kickbacks. That means they pretty much have to be not telling the truth about the relative health level of the food (because to sell it they have to say it's good). I should hope most good vets would decline that little offer. How sad.

 

And science diet is what the dogs at the shelter are on - we have a little bag to switch him over. Unfortunately the food we bought was Purina ONE, so we'll be switching it yet again when that bag's done (which shouldn't take long). I found out there's a place relatively nearby that sells Wellness, Innova, and Chicken Soup. Just have to convince the boyfriend it's worth the money.

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I used to feed ProPlan to my dogs and found it to be fine for them. The biggest problem with Purina is that they will change their formulations unannounced, so you need to check ingredients regularly. The ProPlan I fed was the turkey and barley and the ingredient list was good (i.e., real meat, no by-products, no corn).

 

For any medical problems with my cats or dogs, I always choose the Purina perscription diets over Science Diet, mainly because the Purina formulas seem to be more palatable (important when you have an animal that is in, say, kidney failure, and you need to get them to eat, but they are feeling nauseous and so aren't inclined to eat anything but the most appealing food). In addition to ingredients, you also need to pay attention to fat/protein ratios. I have spent a lot of time reading labels, and I actually blend two different foods whose ingredients I like to get a fat/protein ratio closer to what I want.

 

Anyway, I have yet to find the perfect food. The place I shop just started carrying Canidae, highly touted by many folks, but I wasn't *entirely* happy with the ingredient list. BUt I have tried it and my dogs have eone well on it (blended with another product). The point is that you need to be an educated consumer and also know your dog(s). What works for you and yours may not work for someone else and their dogs. I know many working dogs who are fed crap food, but they are happy, healthy, and hard working. There is no perfect premade food. Educate yourself and choose based on that knowledge and the response of your dogs to that choice.

 

J.

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hey sea4th, I dont think they (the vets) make a lot of proffit off of selling science diet and that other crap, but they do get a kick back...big difference from a proffit. DO you know what a kick back is?

 

I know many vets on a personal level that fuss about it daily.

 

Maybe you have just heard from your vet that they dont get kickbacks, maybe he/she just didnt want to admit it. Doctors get kickbacks for promoting all kinds of things, whether it be a regular MD or a vet. They get kickbacks for stuff ranging from medicines to food to bath and soap products.

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As a disabled former truck driver I know first hand that Purina is not Purina. It is Nestle. Also you see all "brands" in warehouses. I counted over 10 major brands of dogfood in one warehouse/plant. Dollar General cat food is real "seafood". A load was delivered in Atlanta when I was there. I did not ask if it was fillets or guts. With the smell of the plant I was guessing guts. If you REALLY saw what was in OUR food you would never touch store bought anything. So what can we feed our puppies?

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My best answer for you dear trucker is to feed something to your puppy that is FDA approved human grade. It may cost a little more but you will save in vet bills down the road. I use natual balance.

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...big difference from a proffit. DO you know what a kick back is?
Hey, Maggie May's Mom-----RELAX!! No need to get in a snit. You made a blanket statement, which might not be fair to all vets. Perhaps there is some incentive, perhaps there is a tiny profit margin---but since you brought it up---define kickbacks----pens, pencils, discounts---luxurious vacations in Hawaii? What. Define kickbacks----and relax---no matter what your or mine opinion is, civilization as we know it will not collapse---sheesh.

 

Vicki

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We feeding our 11wk old NutroMax Puppy (95% dry and a bit of wet for taste).

This was the breeders choice and suggestion. Not having any knowledge of dog food, we went with what she said.

She's growing great and a nice coat (some dandruff now and again)

I was thinking of changing to Innova or Wellness.

 

Is it worth changing if she appears happy?

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I don't put all that much stock in FDA or AAFCO approved. In fact, one of the foods I feed is not AAFCO approved and if I could afford it, I'd feed to to all 13 dogs.

 

In any case, does anyone remember a study done years ago where old leather shoes, crankcase oil and a couple of other things were thrown together to produce a "food" that met AAFCO standards. I have heard of this study referred to several times and would really be interested in reading about it, rather than second & third hand information.

 

That "approved" label doesn't always mean a heck of a lot----and those pictures of plump chickens, "real" veggies on dog food bags----all meant for the consumer's $$$$. It's well worth researching beyond the hype and marketing to find what's best for your dog.

 

Vicki

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Hey Vicki,

 

I think you took my comments way too snappishly. I was just wondering if you knew the difference in a kick back versus profit. To me if a vet is selling a food that has worse ingredients than Ol Roy, there has to be something lucrative in it for him. I dont know about a house in hawaii, but definately more than a few pens and junk. But of the vets i know on a personal level, they dont get pens and stuff like that, they get a certain amount of money for every client they can prove they have "switched" over to the food the are pushing, like Science Diet. With your comments about a small profit margin, i guess i misunderstood you, to mean that you thought they were getting too minimal a profit to push the crap, but i was just saying, its not about profit margin, but about kick-backs and that there is a HUGE difference between the two.

 

I dont think the world will collapse but it is one of those subjects that touches a nerve for me, i think it is dirty handed. There are a lot of ignorant and nieve people out there that trust their vet to do the right thing for their dog, not the thing that will give the most kickback.

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I am so horrified about the information on Kibbles and Bits. Not that I would eved feed my dogs anything like that anyway, but I think that's just awful.

 

I feed Jes the Trader Joe's Chicken and Rice, and he seems to do well on it. Anyone else feeding that, or have any comment?

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I was in an Alpo plant in KS last summer. We were not allowed past a gate. No restrooms or breakroom. It was to secure the "food" from possible contamination. Then I picked up a load at a major Juice plant in FL. There were over a dozen major "Lables" in sight. I was not only allowed inside, but was not monitored. Walked right past a machine filling bottles with Arizona Tea. The ingredients may be junk, but at least it is "safe"! I have a friend that bottled Miracle Whip. He now eats mutard. I guess that is why my parents taught me to say grace before I eat. Maybe we should teach our pups to say grace?

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It is sad that this is the way that the industry is. .. Going to sooo much effert to Promote it as HEALTHY , but instead it's a complete sham. They believe that this is what the consumers want. . . and Most pet owners are completely oblivous to whats in the food. (Me included.) I just don't like being tricked.. don't promise me that this food is the best for my dog. . .

 

Oh well The quest for the new food continues.

 

Denver isn't bad and we have quite a few independent petstores.

 

ONWards.

 

Sterling

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I'm not going to comment on Proplans nutritional content one way or another. There are worse foods out there and certinaly much better foods. But one thing I can comment on is that Vets do not get "kick backs" from Pro plan, a division of Nestlie purina. I can't speak for Hills on this point . But I did sell Proplan thrugh a vetrinary pharmecutical co. for years. There was never any money, food, or incentives offered to the vets. Hills at one point did threaten all of its distributing vets they would remove their food if other food was offered. Many vets at the time said fine, and then offered Iams, proplan, Nutro etc as a selection.

As I mentioned before, food quality varies, but a blanket statement that one company is shady in its practices is rather unfair. I toured a Nutro Max production plant with a breed club one time along with several other companys. Did testing in a nutritional lab facility for many more. All are full of propeganda and ultimatly want our money .

Andrea D.

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I got Bailey (BC/GSD-X) at age 9 weeks. I fed him Purina Puppy Chow for four months, and that went well. He grew at a rapid rate and was healthy. Then I tried a switch over to IAMS lamb-based puppy food.

 

He couldn't tolerate that -- it caused him to have diarrhea. My vet said that lamb-based dog food sometimes has a tendency to cause diarrhea. The IAMS company was very good and gave me a certificate for the full cost of the lamb-based food.

 

I used the certificate to buy some IAMS chicken-based dog food, and I mixed that 50/50 with the Purina puppy chow. I kept that feeding routine in place for four months.

 

Then I found that our local Mennonite feed store carries a brand called Beaverdam dog Food, which is made in Delaware. It must be a small company. Their food which I now feed Bailey is 27% protein. He likes that food a lot and he is completely healthy, so I have to assume it is working for him..

 

The Beaverdam product is advertised as premium dog food, but since it is a no-name company they aren't charging a lot. It costs just $14.75 for 40 pounds.

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