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Off Leash?

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What do you all think of the idea of muzzling him when he is off leash to prevent any more fights with this other dog.
Muzzling him will not prevent fights, it will only prevent him from being able to bite. He will still be able to show aggression, and if the other dog feels like biting, then he will be bitten but will not be able to bite back. In other words, muzzling will not solve your problem, and could even make it worse.

 

I would suggest that until your dog will obey a "leave it" or a recall reliably, he not be off leash. You could use a long line if you want, so that when you see this other dog, you can get yours under control.

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Lucy,

My dog never displays agression except to this young elkhound. He is fine with other dogs and he has met hundreds over the time I have owned him, he loves to greet them and does not display any agressive tendencies. He is normally a very submissive dog and I am not sure why this particular one bothers him so much. The elkhound totally ignores my older dog but likes to play with my younger female. Thanks for the advice on muzzling him and I will do as you suggest and get a longer leash so he has some extra freedom.

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Interesting,

 

I have had 4 border collies from puppies and none of them ever strayed far off leash from their first walks in safe open places. If they ever strayed further than I was comfortable with, I would run away in the opposite direction and they always followed. (this started with my first collie) Because he never wandered, it didnt occur to me the others would and they never did either.

 

It progressed into a game as they became older..me hiding behind trees, in shrubs LOL anything I could fit into or behind...they honestly love the game and are so thrilled when they find you..(had to hold the first ones tail to stop it from wagging and alerting the others where I was) My older female was almost always the first to find me and would watch the others search with me..she seemed to have radar as to my location.

 

At the same time they never let me far out of their sight knowing I will make a mad dash for freedom. I think it is taking advantage of their herding nature..but makes me laugh and them happy.

 

If you are the most fun to your collie, he/she will choose to be with you over anything. Often when I returned to my car I would have accumalated more dogs on my walk and have to wait for their owners to show. Basically we werent walking, we were playing constantly balls, arobies , hide and seek and other dogs would mob us. I must admit it did annoy me because my dogs never ran off and bothered other dogs, having 3 together was a pack and they didnt want to play with strange dogs only their select dog buddies from obedience & agility training.

 

When they saw a strange dog approach they would come instantly to heel 2 on my left one on my right and non collie people would praise them on being such well behaved dogs...Damn I miss them :D

 

Anyway I have a new pup (14 weeks old) after being dogless for 2 years and he likes the hide and seek game too...I use it if he doesnt come instantly first call when he is tracking good smells..I take off..not to far I can always see him :rolleyes: and true to the form of the first 3 he forgets anything else and wants to be with me.

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River:

 

We play the same game with our two in the campgrounds, lots of big trees to hide behind. They love it and get more than excited when we start to play. Usually kids in the campground will see us and want to join in. Saves me from all that running. I park the dogs and tell the kids to go hide, then let them go and they have a blast looking for all those little people.

 

I also use the running in the opposite direction with our two. Briar had no recall when we first adopted her. That need to be with you really works! She now has a spot on recall because she thinks I am going to take off without her.

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What's a leash?? :confused:

 

Just kidding... but here at home we never have to leash the dogs. They know where their yard is. But Dale does sometimes "forget" when he's out alone to do his business... so he has to be watched or he'll wander over to the neighbors yard. Daisy never forgets. She's the kind of dog that you can let out alone for hours, and she'll just sniff around the yard, do her business, then come back to the door and wait patiently for you to let her back in.

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I have been walking Bailey on a longer leash and practicing "come" throughout the walk. I am stuffing my pockets with yummy treats and the tennis ball. I don't reward every "come", I reward 5 out of 10. He does know the command, I just don't think we are ready for off leash. The only time that he doesn't come is when there is a jogger or dogs whining behind a fence. Then he needs a tug to get his attention. I am practicing where there are distractions. I am taking Rivers advice and trying to be fun. We play games in the house but not on walks. (shortage of trees to hide behind around here!)He loves to catch the ball, so when he comes I just give it a short toss for him to catch. He is staying closer to me than before, with more attention on me. I'm also giving treats randomly when he sticks close by to me and doing all the good doggie talk. He used to stay at the end of his leash, pulling slightly. Eyes everywhere but on me. I am seeing a great improvement! Now he has more interest in me. Even if he isn't ready for off leash any time soon, this makes a much better walk! Thanks everyone!

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My problem is that this puppy of mine came at a little past ten weeks and the breeder used to let the puppies out in the yard while he cleaned the pen and then run them down and pick them up to put them back.

By the time I got her, she was an escape artist and run away and hid when anticipating being put up.

 

She also is not interesed in treats, more than one or two bites.

 

And she has, from the first day, been fixated on the horses to the point that they wouldn't hardly come to the fence to eat until she and I were going away.

She backs them off with her stare. A now thirteen week old puppy!

So she stays tied to the hay wagon, on a down, while I feed, so as not to get too intensely "stuck" (not that she really did, she was ready to move when they did).

 

It is going to be an interesting time, to get her on cattle. Definitively will wait until about eight months or so, thebreeder and I think will be best.

She will need that time to believe that I am calling the shots in life, before stock enters the picture and to grow up enough, even if we start them on a few hair sheep.

She is also very hard on herself, getting knocked on things in her wild play but thankfully getting better.

 

At least she has a lightning fast down and is learning to keep it. A natural at it, no treats/force was necessary. Responds to voice anywhere and to the raised hand signal, will introduce the whistle soon.

Also knows the difference in sit and down and is starting to back, while mopping floors, by doors and especially the refrigerator door (that misteriously gets a head in it every time someone opens it). :rolleyes:

 

Now, if I could trust her more off leash not to get into trouble...but I definitely don't!

 

So, for the first time, I have a dog on a leash going with me everywhere to do chores for more than a week or so.

 

Who said that every dog teaches us all over again?

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Great topic!

 

Cheri and River, That's a really good idea. (about hiding and calling)

 

My pup always come when I say "bye bye" because that's what I say every morning and she thinks I'd leave her when I say that. I use it only when I really need her to come. I don't think I can use that in trial and stuff...

 

Anyway, I am trying that hiding game

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My guys are on leash when we are in town, off-leash as soon as we get to the woods or one of the fields, where we do most of our walking/playing/working. My dog sitter walks with my older dog off-leash in low-traffic areas in town. He is reliable enough, but I don't have the nerve.

 

I used a long line to train the recall--and I maintain it by doing totally random recalls about five times every walk. I also train the distance "down," which is very useful sometimes.

 

Cheers, MR

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I would say that one of the most important things we can do to insure a recall in a dog is to never let it learn to run off, to keep it on leash, short first, longer later, until we are sure.

 

Every time a dog runs off and we can't get it back for a while and the dog realizes it, like when we have to keep calling or trapping it, we are teaching the dog that it doesn't have to come if it doesn't want to.

 

I have not let Zip, now 3 months 3 weeks old, off leash yet where I have to get her back on a recall but yesterday, playing with another dog at our agility yard, she came in like a rocket several times when called. I was sure happy with that, for now.

 

Her down is so strong that when another dog later was being prepared for the Utility down, Zip was mimicking the hand signals for down and sit right with that dog, on her own and I had to ask the other dog's handler to also give her a treat for her efforts when they were done.

 

Made me pround to have such a smart dog, that is not situationally bound.

 

She still doesn't know stay, will work on that next, but she didn't seem quite ready for that yet and since any down is an automatic stay anyway, I think that she will catch on well to staying in one place any other time anyway.

 

Did anyone said border collies were smart? :rolleyes:

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Hi all. I just wanted to share my experience over the past 2 days with you...with off-leash practice...because your information has proved to be so valuable. My 1 yr old (not a BC, sorry!) has been learning off-leash in a fenced in Jr High football field close to my house. She has been doing 'ok' but I just didn't trust her to bolt off when she saw another dog, a kid (she just loves kids), squirrel, etc. I realized, after reading your inputs above, I was not her 'play thing'...I was not her 'oh gosh, I want to be with you, mommy' focus. Over the past 2 days, we have spent hours in the field playing the games you all mentioned. They ALL work. Every one of them. I now see the 'I just love you so much...stop running & hiding' look in her little eyes. It is an amazing transformation. I even got her to 'stay' as a student walked by which has been very difficult for her. Maybe she just wasn't ready to fully absorb the commands or understand the importance so she is safe. She has taught me so much about patience and persistence.

 

I wanted her to be 'ready' for when we get our new BC puppy (hopefully) in a couple of weeks. I'm not opposed to training 2 lil kids at the same time but would be a titch easier if 1 had a clue already.

 

Thank you soooo much for the suggestions.

 

Karyn

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We live in a small town of about 2500 or so, and the only time my dogs go on leash is when we go herding, otherwise they would jump in to help, and when I take them into the local Petmart. Around town, they know to stay on the sidewalks, wait on the corner until I say "Cross". When we head out of town on the gravelled country roads they all come back to me and sit when I call "CAR", and they don't move until I tell them to.

We were stopped by the Bylaw officer one day, who stopped his car, and asked me to come over. I told the dogs to down and stay, and walked over to talk to him. He asked me if I knew about the leash law, and I replied yes. He then said, "don't worry about it" and continued along his way.

People constantly stop me and ask where I got such good dogs, and I mention the hundreds of hours of training that goes into it. It's tough staying ahead of the Border Collies, and adds a challenge to life.

 

Ken, Geordie and Cactus

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We live in a small town of about 2500 or so, and the only time my dogs go on leash is when we go herding, otherwise they would jump in to help, and when I take them into the local Petmart. Around town, they know to stay on the sidewalks, wait on the corner until I say "Cross". When we head out of town on the gravelled country roads they all come back to me and sit when I call "CAR", and they don't move until I tell them to.

We were stopped by the Bylaw officer one day, who stopped his car, and asked me to come over. I told the dogs to down and stay, and walked over to talk to him. He asked me if I knew about the leash law, and I replied yes. He then said, "don't worry about it" and continued along his way.

People constantly stop me and ask where I got such good dogs, and I mention the hundreds of hours of training that goes into it. It's tough staying ahead of the Border Collies, and adds a challenge to life.

 

Ken, Geordie and Cactus

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I happened upon this idea for the long down while playing on the agility equipment in the yard. My dogs have a wooden skid for a Table. I send them over a jump and off to the table. They know they have to lie down immediately. I just move the table around the yard and send them to it. We are far from perfect but its fun. I'm going to try that arm raised idea for a silent command. My neighbours must think I have a junky yard, with my hockey stick weavepoles and blue barrel chutes. Better a junky yard than living beside a bored BC. I use a towel instead a skid when the snow is deep.

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