J.E.S Posted November 13, 2005 Report Share Posted November 13, 2005 Unlike the D and M genes, which affect the dark colored portions of a dog, the T (ticking) gene operates on the white portions of the dog. Ralph Pulfer's Tweed was basically a white dog (extreme white SwSw -- like my pup whose picture I recently posted in this thread ), but with very heavy ticking making his extensive white appear a heathery grey.Ahh....which would explain why ADCs are born all white. At least the ones I have seen. The ticking shows up later. Like in Border Collies also. Very interesting Eileen, thanks for the genetics lesson. Joan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer Glen Posted November 14, 2005 Report Share Posted November 14, 2005 You are right that ACD's are born white Joan, that is also why they have some deafness that runs in some lines. (some say it's because of the dalmation in them- another breed born all white and with deafness problems) I wonder if the BCs with ticking have to be careful of white or merle breedings. It would be interesting to know what the color variations would be with the ticking if it was bred to different colors. I have a decendent of Soot, but all the dogs going back to her were tri. Jenny Glen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaBluez Tess Posted November 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2005 I finally did remember that I did see a blue merle run. It's has been bugging me for the last few days...knowing that I have seen one and couldn't remember the detaiils. She was owned by Debbie Sutton (since married and has new name of ???). The bitch was run by Martha at the Nationals in 01. Gosh, I can't remember the bloodlines on that dog but I do remember she ran her or the pups/relatives in agility. Has anyone seen a red merle in a trial? Anyone have more working pixs of the merles? Blues? White Border Collie? Diane~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjk05 Posted November 14, 2005 Report Share Posted November 14, 2005 Deb Kelly- now lives in Australia. Blue Moon Border Collies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebecca, Irena Farm Posted November 14, 2005 Report Share Posted November 14, 2005 Deb Kelly's merles go back to Sagdyl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laurie etc Posted November 14, 2005 Report Share Posted November 14, 2005 Here's a picture - thanks to Christine K- of Pod at a Novice Trial last Spring - I got her initially to do agility with at 10 months old before I "discovered herding", but she is from straight herding lines. Her sire is an imported merle Morris' #Mac son (Harriot Roy) whose dam Jess ISDS 163404 was a Price's ##Davy daughter. Her dam is a ##Wisp daughter (Bear) with Jack Knox's Scottish lines (Henderson's Craig ISDS 121370, Knox's Imp. Jill) on the bottom side of her pedigree. So she is essentially half Scottish, 1/2 Welsh/English bred. Thanks to Jennifer G, I now know the merle came from her granddam, House's Jess ISDS 163404- who is the ##Davy daughter, going back to a Welsh breeder JP Burke. This little dog is all heart and work ethic, although maybe not as stylish as some, she usually gets the job done. I have been told that she's capable of Open work eventually, but with the agility and "first herding dog" baggage, we have some "undoing" to work on. http://www.pbase.com/pastorshill/image/39761469 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebecca, Irena Farm Posted November 14, 2005 Report Share Posted November 14, 2005 first herding dog baggageLOL. That should be a standard acronym: "FHDB". Got one of those for sure. How about "SHDB"? "THDG"? Probably most people aren't as slow to catch on as me and therefore wouldn't need those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laurie etc Posted November 14, 2005 Report Share Posted November 14, 2005 Originally posted by Rebecca, Brook Cove Farm:Deb Kelly's merles go back to Sagdyl. I checked that out too - same Sadghyl dogs from Lesley Healy that are in the pedigrees of the agility dogs I know. I will say that a number of agility dogs from that line in my area have also been put to sheep, and I haven't seen any that were not keen to herd first time out as well. Most of their owners do not have herding as a priority, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laurie etc Posted November 14, 2005 Report Share Posted November 14, 2005 Originally posted by Rebecca, Brook Cove Farm: quote:first herding dog baggage LOL. That should be a standard acronym: "FHDB". Got one of those for sure. How about "SHDB"? "THDG"? OK - I'm still tired from the weekend Rebecca... could you spell those out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebecca, Irena Farm Posted November 14, 2005 Report Share Posted November 14, 2005 Repeating the pattern from "First Herding Dog Baggage": SHDB = "Second" and THDB = "Third" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer Glen Posted November 14, 2005 Report Share Posted November 14, 2005 Laurie, Your Pod (Laddie's wonderful cousin) is a good looking dog! Jenny Glen PS Rebecca, is that FHDB the baggage that I put on the dog or the baggage that he put on me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoloRiver Posted November 14, 2005 Report Share Posted November 14, 2005 Not that I am that widely read in terms of Border Collie pedigrees, but I have never seen a merle that did NOT go back to Sadghyl dogs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty&Abigail Posted January 19, 2006 Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 Hi! this is a really interesting post.. I don't like merle dog very much, even if some of them are really nice dog. But I don't really belive that they can't work sheeps. I know that in old times, they weer killed in Uk.. because they where considered a failure in the breed. These uk breeder that you are talking about Laura Cunningham bought some of her dog from Astra Sheepdog breeding and training centre: http://www.sheepdogsforsale.com/ Janet Bale the owner is a great trainer, and she breed for herding ability. Just go and see the web site.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokjbc Posted January 19, 2006 Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 Hi, She's nowhere close to even trialing yet, but I worked a merle smooth coated pup this past weekend that was working bred (not sure how, owner said mother was imported from Ireland but they didn't bring out the papers) and was decent for a pup. Nothing about her appeared to be "show-like", and when she got serious about working she showed potential. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosanne Posted January 21, 2006 Report Share Posted January 21, 2006 I have a merle as well who does indeed go back to Sadghyl, through Merlynn. I had heard that the Sadghyll dogs were the original merle BCs and were created as a herding competitor's wife's project? No idea how true that is, but wherever I heard it from (don't remember) they were implying that some outside breed was used to introduce the color. Being semi-dominant it really wouldn't take many generations for the BC's to look normal again. My merle works really nicely, although I have never trialled her. She would flounder terribly in the breed ring. I think she could have done open if she was in the right hands as a youngster (she's almost 7 now), as I've had her doing some amazing things in large fields. I am going to attempt to get her (and my 2 B&W's) out in Novice in the next year or two, and give Pod some company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laurie etc Posted January 21, 2006 Report Share Posted January 21, 2006 Originally posted by Rosanne D.:I am going to attempt to get her (and my 2 B&W's) out in Novice in the next year or two, and give Pod some company. Hey Rosanne - come on out - but - WARNING!!! it's as addicting as agility! PS - Danger would like to see his B&W 1/2 brother out there too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosanne Posted January 22, 2006 Report Share Posted January 22, 2006 Yeah poor Drifter's sheep-time has been very limited. I did have him circling a bit when he was a youngster, but since it was just me and sheep and no instructor I cut it off not wanting to mess him up. Freeze is VERY natural and I have let her do full outruns in a large field, she's even 'penned' 20 reluctant (and not very dog-broke) sheep into a stall, with only me to help her. I'd love to get into it more, although I don't think it'll ever overtake agility - I've been doing that more than half my life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jodi Posted January 22, 2006 Report Share Posted January 22, 2006 Welcome to the boards, Rosanne! Nice group of people. In fact, most conversations here make me wish I lived on the east coast! I've heard a lot of great things about Freeze. Do you have a picture of her you can send me? Thanks. Jodi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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