Jump to content
BC Boards
Sign in to follow this  
Annie Brightwater

ABCA Suspends Breeder

Recommended Posts

The American Border Collie Association has suspended Mary Ann Harrison of Virginia and North Carolina (Wildrose Border Collies).

 

Mary Ann Harrison (Wildrose Border Collies) has been suspended from ABCA membership for failing to cooperate in an investigation of her breeding practices. Effective July 11, 2006, Ms. Harrison's registration and certification privileges with the ABCA are revoked. This means that no dog she sells, and no pup produced by a sire or dam she owns, is eligible for registration with the American Border Collie Association.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmmmm...doesn't she have a son in North Carolina? Couldn't she just get around this by registering all her dogs in her son's name? Or would the ABCA disallow that?

 

At any rate, it's great news she's been suspended!

 

J.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I saw this on an email from a yahoo b.c. mailing list. I wasn't up to date with this subject.

 

Just curious, what did she do?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, the problem is that no one knows for sure since she won't cooperate with the investigation, I guess. It's safest and most accurate to limit what we say to that fact.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For people who are reading this board, and then talking about it on another list (you know who you are) ... let me point out the obvious for you, because it's clear you can't manage to figure it out for yourselves.

 

Taken from: http://bordercollie.org/boards.html

 

The first line reads:

 

"All About Border Collies provides the border collie bulletin boards for your enjoyment and edification."

 

This board is not sponsored by the ABCA.

 

I'd be careful about calling Eileen names on a public board just because you don't agree with the way she runs this board. You never know what people do for their "real job."

 

In any event, kudos to you, Eileen for minimizing discussion of this topic on a public board, as this investigation is probably far from over. More than sufficient information was provided to the public, unfortunately it seems it wasn't enough for nosey-bodies who are sitting around and complaining about the lack of information they are receiving, despite the fact that more than half of them are overseas.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jodi, I hope this was not because of my two line post above. All I did was ask. It's not even a topic that I'm interested in, don't know why I did ask. I rarely even read the "Politics and Culture", since it's not my cup of tea. I just remembered that I saw that name recently. Never posted anything anywhere else.

 

Thanks,

 

Anda

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jodi:

WOW! All I can say after reading that post, is what is going on? I would have not given it another thought, but you have piqued my interest.. Well, interest is gone now That was easy. As for what people do for a living- that sounds really very much like a threat, and a bit heavy if I do say for my taste. If people behave improperly, and impugn someones reputation, let the damaged party handle it. As they say- moving on....

Julie

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anda,

 

No need to lick muzzle ! There is nothing wrong with wondering about something like this.

It is big news in the border collie world and I for one am very curious about this and make NO apologies for being nosy.

I understand why " details" cannot be published, due to lawsuits....possible misinformation and etc. but NOTHING wrong with wondering. Once it is posted that action has been taken against anyone...........who wouldn't wonder what this person did ???

My thoughts go to the owners of the pups this woman sold and I feel very bad for them. They may have been more careful of who they bought a pup from, but I'll bet they never thought their pup would have no registration privledges down the road.

donna

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I normally wouldn't get involved with any sort of dog politics but feel a need to reply to Jodie

 

I think its normal that as you call us 'over seas' people wanting to know more about a breeder and why they were suspended as there are now a lot of Border Collies exported to Europe from the States and we do not want to import those without registration papers nor with suspect registration papers either

 

I am contacted on a regular basis from French handlers importing dogs from both the UK and the States and the question I am asked is ' Is that dog oficially registered?' This I try and find out by contacting the breeder - have tried on a few occassions to contact the ABCA without success. I think these future buyers of working Border Collie dogs or pups have a right to know who to buy from and who not and why especially if someone has been suspended from the main registry in the US ( and it seems only one for now).

The ABCA also must be upstanding and honest as they are now affiliate to the ISDS who would not put up with breeders who are dishonest and would name and shame as they have in the past.

 

I for one would hesitate to recommend any breeder with the ABCA if they canniot guarentee that any pup or dog registered with them is legitimate.

 

I have had one call from a handler who brought a pup from the States and was told the papers would be following and so far nearly a year on they haven't arrived and they can no longer get intouch with the breeder.

 

So please give those over seas some consideration to the fact they do need to know as now the Border Collie is so widely exported and imported ALL over the world so it is not just an inhouse problem these days

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Before this goes any further, let me just state that my comments were directed at a very small group of people. They know who they are. If everyone "overseas" wants to take offense at my comments, help yourself, but you are wasting your time.

 

"Breeders" such as the one being discussed here do not pose a huge threat overseas, as they don't show their dogs, trial them, run them in agility, etc. They are simply pumping out litter after litter, are not very well known other than for the very millish advertising they do, and I would hope that anyone from overseas who is going to spend the kind of money it would take to import a dog will have done their homework. It doesn't take much homework to figure out that certain people are just in it for the money. And for all you worried about being kept in the loop, it's posted all over the American Border Collie Association website for all to see: http://www.americanbordercollie.org/news.htm.

 

The ABCA has suspended Mary Ann Harrison (Wildrose Border Collies) from ABCA membership for failing to cooperate with an investigation of her breeding practices. Effective July 11, 2006, her registration and certification privileges have been revoked.
What more is there that you need to know? I think this says it all.

 

As far as my "threat," I am not threatening anyone. I am simply reminding that very small group of people how well they DON'T know the people they slam on their little message board. Eileen, you'll be happy to know, I am now the topic of their little world at the moment ... instead of you. Lucky me.

 

I'm done with this topic. Kudos to the ABCA for dealing with this matter. I hope there's many more to come.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jodie

 

All breeders like this have to do is find another outlet for their pups and that can be overseas. It dioesn't matter whether this type of breeder trials ( only interested in the importing of working dogs here) as here in France where hardly any handlers speak English and some who can do not fully understand what it entails to import a pup or some wouldn't be asking me what to do!!!

They read an advert say on the internet for a registered pup - the name of the registry may mean nothing to them as we do not have multiple registries here - then they are sent a pedigree which on paper looks good then buy the pup as cheaply as possible. The French on the whole do not pay big money for their pups either from England or the States ( its not in their nature plus they do not have enough knowledge either - not all but I'm talking about the majority). They see in the pedigree maybe ISDS dogs and think that it makes the pup legit. They are promised the papers will be sent on and given a story of why they do not come with the pup. They do not fully understand the language and neither do they know the registration system for the US so they believe what they are told then when no papers arrive they have no come back as they have no idea of who to contact.

This has happened and thats why I was asked to find out ALL procedures for registering a pup in the US and have never really had any full answers from any of the registries so these type of breeders no matter if they trial etc can sell their pups abroad and have. They just have to advertise on the internet or have a website as this breeder does and look authentic even if they are not.

 

If no one is told over seas how do future buyers know if this type of breeder is authentic or just a puppymiller?.

Who do they contact to do their homework to find the right and honest breeders?.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Andrea,

 

Because I don't want you to think I am ignoring you, I will respond.

 

Who do they contact to do their homework to find the right and honest breeders?
Yes, this is absolutely more the issue than wanting America to provide a list of unethical breeders to every other country. Just because a country has a "forbidden list" of breeders does not mean that the uneducated buyer is going to seek it out, no matter what country you're in. Educating potential puppy buyers can only happen if the individual looking to buy a pup reaches out to someone that can lead them in the right direction. But more times than not, they go off half-cocked, do it on their own, and learn the hard way. That has nothing to do with whether or not America provided their "forbidden list."

 

People in America buy from these puppymills all the time. That is why they are still in business, unfortunately.

 

Maybe you could get together with your Border Collie organization and create an information pamphlet or something and share your knowledge. Here's one page of many that the USBCC has on their site: Tips on Buying a Border Collie

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My posting, ABCA Suspends member started this thread and I regret having now posted it. Not because of the subject but because member 2858 of this board has twisted the subject around and seems to be bringing up issues regarding other posters and nothing to do with the subject of the thread.It seems some people cannot avoid getting into personal issues which would be better done privately and not posted on a public forum.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Annie:

The subject of purchasing a pup from oversees, and hoping all works out applies to me, because I just did that. Yep, it worked out great. One, I was referred to the breeder by someone I trusted. Two, I spoke with the breeder several times, and saw the parents, and pups on dvd three separate times, since they were two weeks. The pup was reg'd in my name, which before she got here, and I paid for the pup once she got here. Lots of trust there, but it worked out beautifully, and I am very happy. I think it is important when having a puppy shipped from very far away, that you really research, and take your time in your decision, asking around, doing google searches etc.

I couldn't be happier with both the dog and the breeder!!!!!!!!

 

Julie

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Annie -

 

I see that your only two posts to this board have been for the purpose of this specific thread. Care you tell us why you are here? Or shall we just assume you are a troll?

 

EDIT: Nevermind. Your identity has just been confirmed for me in writing by a "friend" of yours. Very sad that your own message board is not exciting enough for you.

 

Jodi

(member 2858)

 

P.S. Show dogs suck.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In reply to your last posting Jodi, the reason why I posted in the first place was to convey the ABCA suspension of Wildrose Border Collies membership of the ABCA. Only the third of its kind which is ground breaking news. It is interesting to note that many Wildrose dogs are of ISDS lines. ISDS lines are considered by many to be the cream of Border Collies and are internationaly respected. My second posting under the same thread was with reference to your posting that seemed to twist the reason for my first posting. Again with your latest reply you are trying to make an issue of something that does not exist. May I remind you that this a public forum and if you are trying to imply that am a troll be very careful, as you posted earlier, you never know what people do as a living. End of subject

Annie

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Annie,

If you were a regular member of these boards or any working border collie forums, you would be well aware that having ISDS or ABCA or any other good working bloodlines does not a good breeder make (just as having Ch. show dogs in the pedigrees of a person's breeding dogs doesn't make THAT person a reputable breeder or that person's dogs worthwhile). Those famous dogs are out there in pedigrees all over, and even puppy millers can obtain such dogs, which is *why* the person in question has "internationally respected" lines. You can rest assured that anyone who is serious about getting a good working dog isn't going to go to the likes of Wildrose to find it. Put another way: internationally respected lines and respected breeders of dogs from those lines are two entirely different things. But I suspect you already know that.

 

At any rate, these boards do not belong to the ABCA, so I'm not sure how many ABCA members you'd actually be reaching here, but certainly more than if you had posted to, say, a conformation board. ABCA does send a newsletter out to its members, so they will be informed of this suspension if they haven't already been.

 

Jodi,

I presume these are the same folks who have been here before from that other forum stirring the pot. Why let them bother you? If they choose to bash Eileen or the ABCA on their forum, who cares? We certainly do enough AKC bashing here.

 

Julie

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A couple of quick replies -- sorry I wasn't able to post earlier.

 

>

 

The ABCA will not process transfer applications on the dogs she currently owns, so she cannot put them into someone else's name in our registry. Of course, we cannot stop her from patronizing another registry (or 'registry'), or selling unregistered dogs.

 

>

 

If you mean pups she had already sold and transferred ownership to, so that the current registered owner as of July 11 was someone else, the answer is no.

 

 

I for one would hesitate to recommend any breeder with the ABCA if they canniot guarentee that any pup or dog registered with them is legitimate. >>

 

The breeders who have been suspended or expelled by the ABCA can be found at www.abcbordercollies.com or by clicking on the 'News' section of www.americanbordercollie.com . That information is posted as soon as the disciplinary action is taken. If the ISDS has a comparable way of letting the public know what breeders they have 'named and shamed,' I am not aware of it.

 

No registry, including the ISDS, can guarantee that every pup registered with it is legitimate. That is a simple fact. Registries serve an important purpose, and I think the ABCA is a good one, but it would be foolish to think registration with the ABCA is all you need to know about a breeder. I can't imagine why someone in France would want to buy a dog from a breeder in the US about whom they knew nothing except that the dog was registered with the ABCA. I feel like a broken record saying it yet again, but . . . KNOW YOUR BREEDER. DON'T BUY FROM A BREEDER YOU KNOW ONLY THROUGH HIS OR HER WEBSITE.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Originally posted by Eileen Stein:

<< Will this have any effect on dogs registered by Ms. Harrison prior to the suspension? >>

 

If you mean pups she had already sold and transferred ownership to, so that the current registered owner as of July 11 was someone else, the answer is no.

Thanks for answering that question Eileen. I, also, was wondering about that.

Another question ...

Will the ABCA be revealing more specifics about the reasons behind the suspension, or will the rumourmills be the only way of finding out about specific accusations?

And a couple of "what if" questions...

Since it is a "suspension" for lack of cooperation to the investigation and not a full blown permanent ban from the registry, does this mean if the breeder decides to cooperate with ABCA that she could be cleared and reinstated?

 

Also wondering what kinds of "mis-deeds" have to be reported to instigate an investigation? I'm assuming the charges would have to be similar to Swaf..., such as falsifying registration papers or mis-representing dogs?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kudos to the ABCA for taking action...I really do not see how this could be basis for anyone to criticize the ABCA when actions such as these are taken. I'm sure the AKC has many more bad (and really bad) breeders registering litters than the ABCA and they do nothing about it.

 

Jodi...you're obviously trying to press a button with Annie and you're both obviously trying to bring other board news to this one...but really...Show Dogs Suck...why not just Showing Dogs Suck. I know, it's my ever turning broken record, but why make it about the dogs when it's about the people?

 

Maria

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...