Jump to content
BC Boards

Dual Registration?


Julia Hunt
 Share

Recommended Posts

Well, what's been holding this up is I've been waiting for official wording but that's not happening as fast as I had hoped so here goes in my own wording, i.e, not the official wording that will be used but you get the idea:

 

Since breeding for conformation is not consistent with the goals of a working registry, any dog or bitch named "Conformation Champion" by a conformation registry after 1-1-04 is not eligible for ABCA registration. If they are already ABCA registered,they will be deregistered by ABCA.

 

Denise Wall

ABCA Director

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Denise,

 

Just curious about the logistics. Will there be someone assigned to scan the monthly statistics of the AKC new conformation champions to find those in violation of this new decision, or will ABCA take care of these only if it comes to their attention, whether intentional or not.

 

Also then, dual reg. dogs participating in dog sports will not be affected?

 

Thanks.

 

Vicki

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Denise,

 

Will there be a deliberate effort on the part of ABCA to find out the violators, such as perhaps someone assigned to scan the AKC monthly stats of new conformation champions, or will these actions be taken against violators only as they surface, without any particular effort of ABC's part?

 

Then dual reg. dogs are OK for now, as long as they are not shown in conformation?

 

Thanks.

 

Vicki

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Will there be a deliberate effort on the part of ABCA to find out the violators, such as perhaps someone assigned to scan the AKC monthly stats of new conformation champions, or will these actions be taken against violators only as they surface, without any particular effort of ABC's part?

 

There will be a deliberate effort on the part of ABCA to find dual registered conformation champions, something like you describe.

 

Then dual reg. dogs are OK for now, as long as they are not shown in conformation?

 

Certainly it is not encouraged, but they will not be deregistered.

 

Denise

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Since breeding for conformation is not consistent with the goals of a working registry, any dog or bitch named "Conformation Champion" by a conformation registry after 1-1-04 is not eligible for ABCA registration. If they are already ABCA registered,they will be deregistered by ABCA.

 

Will this be retroactive for all offspring as well? Say, Sire & Dam are de-registered, will "all" offspring from them be as well?

 

Karen

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Denise - is ABCA also going to be tracking the UKC Show Stats as well.

 

There is always lots of discussion about AKC Conformation Showing concerns but UKC Conformation Showing is never raised.

 

I realize that there are not as many UKC Shows as AKC Shows, but people are still getting UKC Championships on their dogs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Another thing I'm curious about. I've been out of the loop for a couple of years, i.e., haven't been near a dog show for that long. At that time, most of the conformation dogs were OZ imports or breeding and I maybe saw two that looked nothing like the OZ dogs, in the conformation ring. Are there actually that many dual registered dogs competing in conformation to for the new decision make an acutal impact on numbers. I don't think the show-bred barbie collies could give a hang about dual registration, and isn't that what is mostly out there and not working bred dogs who are dual registered?

 

I don't have numbers in front of me, but I'm guessing, based on my observation (above) that the biggest impact ABCA's decision will be to send a message, and a good one at that.

 

I think it's a good first step but I don't think it should end there. I hope subsequent steps evolve as time goes on. To the working border collie, I think the sports folks pose a bigger threat. Don't get me wrong on this either because I'm learning to really like agility, but a working-bred dog has that covered as well.

 

I'm eager to see how things fall out in 2004 with ABC's decision. Time will tell what other decisions need to be made.

 

In the meantime, I commend you on a good first step.

 

Vicki

Link to comment
Share on other sites

" To the working border collie, I think the sports folks pose a bigger threat."

 

I concur. To my mind, the only real way to preserve the working ability of the ABCA registered border collie across a broad spectrum is to require that a dog demonstrate working ability--and I mean real ability--before it can be registered. It's not going to happen though, is it? Too much money in registration fees at stake.

 

No doubt some of you are going to insist that it is impractical (hi Eileen ) but in principle at least I think the idea has great merit.

 

Sure, it's great that ABCA has the money to commit to the Nationals and other worthy and valuable endeavors that improve and preserve the breed. That is certainly a factor. However, my supicion is that the vast majority of ABCA/CBCA registered dogs could not herd their way out of a paper bag and that's a factor too.

Does this matter? Not to me. I know where to go to get a good working dog. However, folks like our friend whose phone calls and emails were not answered do not. Wouldn't it be nice if he could rely on registration as a reasonably good indication that the dog he purchased would actually work?

 

A.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Vicki, I think you are probably right that the sports folks pose a bigger threat at this point, for the reason you give. Breeding for something other than working ability is bad for working ability, no matter what that "something" is -- conformation or agility or flyball or whatever. Certainly this conformation ban makes sense only as a first step. If it turns out to be only a first step, I can swallow my disappointment that it's a much smaller first step than I had hoped.

 

>

 

It's not going to happen, Andrea, but that's not the reason why. It's not going to happen because it would require a huge amount of resources to administer, it would exclude a huge number of good working dogs whose farmer/rancher owners don't have the time and money to spend to demonstrate their working ability to the ABCA, and it would leave us with too small a gene pool. Other than that, I've got nothing against the idea. I freely admit that "in principle" it has a lot of appeal, but so do lots of things that are in practice not feasible.

 

You told our friend that the working breeders he was calling wouldn't return his phone calls because they didn't know him. I don't see how having a working test for registration with ABCA would solve that problem.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Don't know anything about agility, obedience or conformation, but I participate in flyball--my wife's taken over running our older dog as my free time's been taken up by herding--and from what I've seen Border Collies bred for the sport are very rare. What I do see a lot of is Border Collies bred to Jack Russells, etc. to make faster height dogs. You may not agree with this, but the offspring don't hurt the gene pool because they're not Border Collies. I guess there could be an opportunity cost if the sires or dams could be bred to produce better working dogs, but I'm not sure if the Border Collies being bred are of that quality.

 

A little off topic, but it's always been curious to me that the ABCA and USBCHA are separate organizations. Like it or not, part of the power of other registries is sanctioning in order to compete in the organizations' activities. I'm not advocating elimination of the time-honored tradition of any dog being able to compete in trials, but there must be ways to provide more benefits to being part of the registry. There are several respected working breeders in my area who don't register their dogs with the ABCA. As things stand right now, what are they losing?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yikes, Tony, it's pretty rampant! As an avid sports competitor, I can affirm that some people are indeed breeding BC's solely for sport, even if you don't see it or realize it. But I'm not sure the majority of sports-only folks even know about ABCA or care about it, since ABCA registration doesn't mean anything in the agility or flyball world....and unfortunately AKC registration DOES (for agility, not flyball).

 

-Laura

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey Tony,

Here in Canada the CBCA is the sole registering body for border collies under the Animal Pedigree Act. Any dog sold as a purebred border collie in Canada must be registered with the CBCA. Is this better than the US situation, where border collies are also recognized by the AKC? Absolutely. However, in practical terms, it has by no means discouraged the breeding of agility and flyball dogs. I am personally aware of several breeders who breed specifically for this market, and for pets of course. The money is good. Most of them boast of working bred dogs (hah!) and Supreme International and National Champions in their lines (it would be hard to avoid this--the gene pool is small--but most buyers don't know any better. ) I have also seen several stellar examples of these breedings on sheep. They make OB's look good.

A.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Northof40 wrote

 

Denise - is ABCA also going to be tracking the UKC Show Stats as well.

 

I don't really know all of the details yet but thanks for mentioning that. I'll make sure to bring that up.

 

For all those asking both here and in private email to help ID the Dual Registered Conformation Champions - thanks If we're unable to establish an adequate procedure we'll seek your help.

 

Denise

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here in Canada the CBCA is the sole registering body for border collies under the Animal Pedigree Act. Any dog sold as a purebred border collie in Canada must be registered with the CBCA. Is this better than the US situation, where border collies are also recognized by the AKC? Absolutely.

________________________________________________

However, under Canadian Law you will note that the CBCA cannot refuse to register those Border Collies that are registered with Kennel Clubs.

 

As such they created a dual registration system.

The section of the CBCA Bylaws that govern registration are as follows:

 

14.4 CLASSES

Dogs not previously registered shall be designated Section A or Section B according to the Canadian Border Collie Association Class of the sire and Dam or the Class of the original registry of the Sire and Dam. Section A shall comprise animals where both parents are Section A. Section B shall comprise animals where either parent is Section B.

 

Dogs previously registered will be assigned the Section of the original registry.

 

Initially, the following registries are recognized by the Association. Other registries will be considered by the Board on appeal.

 

SECTION A REGISTRIES

(a) International Sheepdog Society of Great Britain;

(:rolleyes: American International Border Collie Registry, Inc.;

© American Border Collie Association;

(d) North American Sheep Dog Society.

 

SECTION B REGISTRIES

(a) United Kingdom Kennel Club;

(:D American Kennel Club;

© Australian Kennel Club

 

14.4A RECLASSIFICATION ON MERIT

A dog may be reclassified from Section B to Section A on sufficient proof of herding ability.

 

Herding Ability shall be established by the dog placing in the top ten of three Open Class Sheepdog trials each with a gather of not less than 250 yards and entries of more than 20 dogs. Each trial must be under a different judge. Trials will be sanctioned at the discretion of a committee.

 

Alternatively, the Directors may appoint a committee of three to asses the herding ability of the dog. The test shall take place at a venue established by the committee but not at the home farm of the dog or on its usual stock. The dog must demonstrate competence in the following elements: a gather of not less than 300 yards and a drive of not less than 100 yards. Committee members shall receive an honorarium to be established by the Board and to be paid by the petitioner

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...