Eileen Stein Posted October 23, 2002 Report Share Posted October 23, 2002 Robin, I started out to answer you and then decided we ARE just plowing old ground. You've made these points before, and I've answered them, and you've answered my answer. So I'll give it a rest, except to say that I think by taking this action we WOULD be supporting the breeders who are making the right choices and helping them continue to do so, which I agree with you is an important thing to do. On the subject of wanting to see the studbooks closed -- if I'm not mistaken, you're good friends with the BCSA person who has spearheaded the effort to keep the AKC studbook open. Is there any chance, in your opinion, that the BCSA might be persuaded to just let the studbook close? Is there any point in our making efforts in that direction? I have always assumed there was not, but maybe the situation has changed? I enjoyed seeing you at the trial last weekend too. It was a pleasure to get away from all this for a little while, and enjoy some good dogs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoofly Posted October 23, 2002 Report Share Posted October 23, 2002 Eileen - I'm sorry, i can't help out with any info on that front. I really don't have any contact with any AKC folks. I'm concerned that ABCA will end up as a "foreign registry" for AKC, though i believe that request was turned down in the past. Then even if (or when) the studbooks close we're really screwed. I wonder if it would be good for ABCA to investigate this with AKC and see if there's any way we can control this, though i know AKC's been less than truthful in dealing with us in the past and I doubt we'd have any say in the matter. -Robin [This message has been edited by Shoofly (edited 10-23-2002).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eileen Stein Posted October 23, 2002 Report Share Posted October 23, 2002 As far as I know, AKC has never permanently accepted registrations from any US registry that does not reciprocate and cooperate with it in verifying pedigrees, etc. I hope that's going to protect us from being recognized as a "foreign registry" (I don't think that's the exact term they use, but I can't remember what is, and I'm too lazy to look it up right now.) We're still looking into some of the earlier suggestions about excluding pedigree information from the registration certificates, and so forth, trying to determine if there's a way we could influence AKC registerability from our end. If so, that could certainly shift the equation you're concerned about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tucknjill Posted October 23, 2002 Report Share Posted October 23, 2002 Well Eileen, Bill Etc... This is not my fight, I am quite happy to go on just as I have and if the people who arent happy wont speak up, well it isnt my job to fight that fight for them. They are big boys and girls and if they cant voice their own opinions, well they wont be able to bitch about the outcome. I am off to train my dogs and enjoy the cool weather, I have a total dislike of politics anyway ...See you all at the finals. Best Sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Margaret M Wheeler Posted October 23, 2002 Report Share Posted October 23, 2002 On the subject of wanting to see the studbooks closed -- if I'm not mistaken, you're good friends with the BCSA person who has spearheaded the effort to keep the AKC studbook open. Is there any chance, in your opinion, that the BCSA might be persuaded to just let the studbook close? ------------------- Gasp!!! Quiet everyone. A master is at work. Carl, remember way back on page 2 when you were wondering what I was talking about? You know about people waking at midnight screamng? Well take out your pencil and paper my brother. School is in session. Just be sure to sit well back or the blood will spatter on your clothes. Eileen, My friend Roseanne (also the best hairdresser outside of NYC), the one who shows English Springer Spaniels and who is instrumental in putting on the Syracuse Cluster shows every year? She's just a friend. Honest to God. I'm loyal I swear it. Can I stay if I promise to stop sending her Christmas cards? ------------------ Margaret retired terrierwoman, border collie newbie drumlins@adelphia.net Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccnnc Posted October 23, 2002 Report Share Posted October 23, 2002 Margaret, your post brings me out of lurking. Yes, several of us in NC knew/know the person Eileen refrerred to. The fact is the original dog wars -- long before your time -- caused many of us to lose friends. In this case, Robin's relationship with this person was affected by this and other non-dog related things. May I suggest, if you have no idea of the facts, be quiet. Now, back to working dogs.. Colin Campbell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Margaret M Wheeler Posted October 23, 2002 Report Share Posted October 23, 2002 You can suggest it Mr. Campbell, and um... I hate to break it you...but you're not the first doggie aristocrat to remind me not to speak up to my betters. Still it was an honor sir, aren't you the man whose wife coined the term "Barbie Collies?" The lights going fast here on the eastern seaboard, better hurry to the dogs. ------------------ Margaret retired terrierwoman, border collie newbie drumlins@adelphia.net Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eileen Stein Posted October 23, 2002 Report Share Posted October 23, 2002 Margaret, Robin and I know each other, we've talked about this subject for years. For a lot of that time we've disagreed, but I don't think Robin holds any animus toward me, and I certainly don't hold any toward her. The only person trying to foment bloodshed seems to be you, and it's really getting tedious. I think you're going to be disappointed in us border collie folks; we're not as vicious as you seem to be hoping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJK Posted October 23, 2002 Report Share Posted October 23, 2002 Robin's analogy was "i.e. we're shooting ourselves in the foot as AKC stabs us in the back". I think that's a good one. We might have to remove a toe -- if we are as you said "shooting ourselves in the foot" -- but we will bleed to death if as again you said "AKC keeps stabbing us in the back". I think what the proposals accomplish is to take the loss of a toe but keep the body alive. What I said was, in essence, we are closing their books for them. If you breed an ABCA registered dog A to bitch B and have litter C. They are all registered with ABCA -- but then if you want to breed litter C (after said date) you have to pick either ABCA or AKC. So, in essence, we are stating "take your choice" -- NOT telling people who to register with -- just take your choice. Which is exactly what AKC will be doing if they close their books - They say register now because after "such and such" a date you can't register with us anymore. What's the difference? I wonder if you could ask the people that you are referring to what they would say or do if AKC decided to close their books at the end of this year. I would really like to know and haven't heard anyone address the issue as to why AKC goes "on and on" about "closing" their books and no one says anything (at least from what I hear). I haven't heard the comments that ABCA is telling people what to do with their pups. I would assume from those comments these are people that are breeding AKC registered dogs (since even if the ban takes place, you can still sell ABCA pups to AKC people they just can't breed them and then re-register them with ABCA). Does that answer any of your questions or have I just "muddied" the water more? Candy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Margaret M Wheeler Posted October 23, 2002 Report Share Posted October 23, 2002 Eileen, So you were seriously asking Robin to prevail on a Barbie collie club heavy to ask the AKC to close its books on the border collie? Wow! Do you think Robin could ask her to ask them to verify the registration status of border collies registered with the AKC while she's at it? Oh wait,I forgot: Robin doesn't know those people anymore. Darn! We almost had the whole thing solved. Border collie folks "vicious"? No way! Vicious is vulgar and unintelligent. Won't work... ------------------ Margaret retired terrierwoman, border collie newbie drumlins@adelphia.net [This message has been edited by Margaret M Wheeler (edited 10-23-2002).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoofly Posted October 23, 2002 Report Share Posted October 23, 2002 Wow look what happens when you leave the computer for a few hours. This is ridiculous. Eileen and Candy, I'll just post to you privately. -Robin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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