Epilepsy

[Dawn, Dallas, Charm & Quinn]

It's been a very, very long time since I have posted to the boards (no reason, just busy and happy).

 

Anyway - I have three Border Collies ranging in age from 6 1/2 years old to 2 years old - one neutred male (rescue); one spayed female (rescue); and one in-tact male (bought) - he's the youngest.

 

In April of this year, my youngest had four GM seizures in less than 45 mins. He was examined immediately by a vet and then sent to a Neurologist in Toronto. She felt is was epilepsy and with the vet decided to "watch him".

 

He was OK until July where he had two GM seizures in three hours - we took him to our vet and he was put on Potassium Bromide.

 

In October he had another short GM seizure and recovered from it almost immediately (no really bad post-ictal symptoms like with the other seizures).

 

In early December he was rushed to the emergency clinic and hospitalized for cluster seizuring - from 5:30 p.m. until 3:00 a.m., he continued to go in and out of seizures - both GM and PM - and spent two full days there. Phenobarb was added to his treatment in loading doses (120 mg per day for 10 days; 60 mg per day for 10 days, etc.). He was taken to Guelph for further examination and they also feel it is Epilepsy and not something like tumors or cysts in the brain.

 

My youngest comes from exceptional working lines with NO history of epilepsy or illness. All throught he pedigree hips and eyes are clear. Lines extend to the UK with Grand Champions and International Grand Champions in herding. The rest of the litter is healthy and happy.......

 

My questions are: for those you with epileptic dogs, what do you feed? Have you ever had an MRI done? What age did the seizures start presenting? What are your tell-tale signs of seizures (I haven't figured Quinn's out yet)? What have you been doing to treat/lessen the severity of the seizures?

 

Dawn, Dallas, Charm & Quinn

Toronto, Ontario

 

I have tried him on the BARF diet, but he doesn't like it - he's on kibble while my other two are on BARF (my oldest has been on a raw food diet for over five years now). He hasn't been vaccinated recently and my vaccine protocol is minimal - I vaccinate for Parvo and Distemper every two years and rabies every third year.

 

And a side comment to a post I read made back in October about someone wanting to breed their bitch because they love her so much - come on over to the emergency clinic when Quinn is so doped up on Valium to stop the seizures that he can't control his bladder and is urinating all over himself, covered in drool and unable to walk.....then tell me if you still want to breed. Unless you have done extensive research on the breed and the lines you shouldn't be breeding. Unless you are willing to take back an epileptic dog and treat and care for it, then you shouldn't be breeding. Quinn's breeder is devasated and to this day, continues to dig through lines, pedigrees, etc. to try and trace where it came from. She has also offered me another puppy later and offered to take Quinn back (which I would never give him up).

 

Any input, experiences, advice on Epilepsy in BCs is greatly appreciated.

[doubleofarm]

>My questions are: for those you with epileptic dogs, what do you feed?

 

I feed Old Mother Hubbard Chicken Wellness and add lots of fresh goodies. Epileptic dogs are considered by many to be immuno-compromised and most people feel they should not be on a BARF diet. If, God forbid, your epi had a reaction to a raw food bacteria it would only compromise him more.

 

>Have you ever had an MRI done?

I have not.

 

>What age did the seizures start presenting?

 

22 months

 

>What are your tell-tale signs of seizures (I haven't figured Quinn's out yet)?

 

There is no pre-ictal signs in my dog, they just happen and there are no specific triggers. I almost wish there were.

 

>What have you been doing to treat/lessen the severity of the seizures?

 

Everything from acupuncture to Phenobarb.

 

Please feel free to email me privately at osci@aol.com as I have been fighting this monster since March and have learned so much from wonderful people on the www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com website. Please read the section on thyroid testing and seriously consider it.

 

I feel for you, this is a terrible stressful disease. I just celebrated 5 weeks and 4 days without a GM and can hardly believe when I wake up each morning that we got thru another night.

 

Tina DeAngelo and

Jaff

2.5 year old Border Collie, 50 lbs,

Soloxine .3 mg BID,

KBr 600 mg once a day,

PB ? grain (16 mg) BID,

500 mg Taurine BID,

Melatonin 3 mg @ bedtime,

Prozyme, Gelatin, Multi Vitamin

[Northof49]

Originally posted by Dawn_Ontario:

My youngest comes from exceptional working lines with NO history of epilepsy or illness. All throught he pedigree hips and eyes are clear. Lines extend to the UK with Grand Champions and International Grand Champions in herding. The rest of the litter is healthy and happy.......

Does he by any chance have Jim Croppers Cap in his pedigree?

[Dawn, Dallas, Charm & Quinn]

Does he by any chance have Jim Croppers Cap in his pedigree?

 

I don't think so - I'd have to check the pedigree when I get home - it doesn't stand out....

[Dawn, Dallas, Charm & Quinn]

Originally posted by doubleofarm:

I feel for you, this is a terrible stressful disease. I just celebrated 5 weeks and 4 days without a GM and can hardly believe when I wake up each morning that we got thru another night.

Hi Tina - thanks for the great information and it's good to talk to someone who goes through it too. Looks like I've got lots of reading to do!

 

Dawn

[doubleofarm]

Dawn,

 

That is what that website is all about, getting some support. There is a place on the homepage or maybe the contents page where you can post a question and someone will get back to you. They are amazing, kind people with tons of good hands on experience with epis. Please take advantage of their services and also email me with any questions you may have.

 

Here is hoping we both get thru the holidays with no seizures!

 

Tina

[Barb Scott]

We have 2 BCs with seizures; Blaze (now 11 1/2) started seizuring 6 years ago (January 2nd to be exact and our vet was out of town for the holidays. He had about 1 seizure every 6 weeks and then clustered so we put him on pheno. He's done great and continued to compete in agility until this fall. Kye (very distantly related to Blaze) started seizuring at 15 months of age. She had cluster seizures from the beginning so was put on pheno right away. She still seizured monthly (all grand mal) so we added Potassium Bromide three weeks ago. It's too early to tell if it's going to work. We used to feed Blaze Eukanuba and switched to Nutro Natural Choice after his seizures began. Kye has been on Natural Choice her entire life. We have taken both BCs off of wheat products and soy products. We have no indicators that a seizure is coming on. When I called Kye's breeder to tell her of the seizures, her answer was there were no seizures in her lines! I wasn't asking for a refund, just wanted to give her information, but oh well...

Blaze's full brother did have low thyroid; Blaze and Kye are normal, but Blaze had immune system problems as a puppy.

There is a yahoo group: K9 Epilepsy, but it makes me crazy reading the posts. I keep looking for even more bad results. (But they do mostly believe in feeding RAW.)

Barb Scott

[karrie]

Tuck had one seizure. It was the day after he was in the mosquito fog. Don't know if this triggered it but I made sure he wasn't out when they fogged again. At that time, Vet's approach was wait and see if he has another. He never had another before he died ( hit by a van). I've read others say they were keeping a journal of when their dog had a seizure. Bless both of ya.

[Denise Wall]

Hi Dawn,

 

I'm sorry to hear about the problems with your dog.

 

The ABCA is looking for dogs affected with epilepsy for a study. If you would like to participate, please contact me at cdwall@mindspring.com for more information.

 

Thanks,

 

C Denise Wall, PhD

ABCA Health and Genetics Committee Member

[sea4th]

Denise,

 

Do they need actual bloodwork or would pedigrees do for the study.

 

I lost my Dolly this past February to an exceptionally bad bout of seizures, just before her 11th birthday. She'd been epileptic since 10 months of age. She was AIBC reg.

 

For the OP, I switched her diet to raw and it appears as thought there was an improvement in her condition, although I cannot state this with any sort of finality. It really is a devestating disease.

 

Good luck.

[Wendy V]

I have found the website, www.canine-epilepsy.com extremely helpful. I am also on the epil-k9 email list, which I have found very helpful as well.

 

I feed a raw diet, no grains or veggies, and feel it has improved the health of my dog as well as her epileptic condition. I no longer vaccinate the dog, and I use flea control sparingly. The dog is also on a reduced dose of heartworm meds. I did not have an MRI done.

 

With a dog that has cluster-seizures, I feel that a post-seizure drug protocol is necessary to prevent status. One must make a plan particular to your dog.

 

Good luck to you,

 

Wendy V

[laurie etc]

Originally posted by Denise Wall:

The ABCA is looking for dogs affected with epilepsy for a study. If you would like to participate, please contact me at cdwall@mindspring.com for more information.

Denise- Will the ABCA sponsored study be sharing samples and pedigrees with the study at U of Minnesota? I know people who have already sent blood/pedigrees for their ABCA affected dogs (and unaffected close relatives) there, but if they need to repeat, I'm sure they would. Seems like a shame if the two studies are not cooperative.

[laurie etc]

Originally posted by Wendy V:

I have found the website, www.canine-epilepsy.com extremely helpful.

Wendy - do you mean

http://www.canine-epilepsy.net/ ?

[Denise Wall]

Vicki wrote:

 

Do they need actual bloodwork or would pedigrees do for the study.

We are only collecting bloodwork on certain dogs in pedigrees with a strong family history of epilepsy. However, every pedigree of an affected dog submitted is important even if there are no other known affected dogs in the pedigree. It may at some point in the future help strengthen a genetic link for another affected dog of that breeding. So, yes, pedigree and info on your dog is helpful.

 

I'll post our general form in the Health and Genetics section later.

[Denise Wall]

Laurie wrote:

 

Denise- Will the ABCA sponsored study be sharing samples and pedigrees with the study at U of Minnesota? I know people who have already sent blood/pedigrees for their ABCA affected dogs (and unaffected close relatives) there, but if they need to repeat, I'm sure they would. Seems like a shame if the two studies are not cooperative.

The U of Minnesota study is an all-breed study. It's unlikely that canine epilepsy is caused by only one mutation for all breeds. (Many different mutations have already been described in humans.) It's possible that the ABCA study will become involved with the MN study in the future. At this time however we're trying to define the type or types of epilepsy seen in working border collies and build pedigrees with DNA samples from them.

 

At the rate genetic research is progressing, in a year or so we should know a lot more about what is the best plan for us. Until then we're trying to collect and organize our breed-specific information so that we can be in an optimal position to either join another study or launch a breed-specific study of our own. It may be that a breed-specific approach will yield quicker results.

[Wendy V]

Laurie,

 

I had it right the first time, www.canine-epilepsy.com. A wealth of information.

 

Wendy V

[tessa_s212]

My questions are: for those you with epileptic dogs, what do you feed? Have you ever had an MRI done? What age did the seizures start presenting? What are your tell-tale signs of seizures (I haven't figured Quinn's out yet)? What have you been doing to treat/lessen the severity of the seizures? [/QB]

I am feeding Cocoa Nutro Natural Choice Lamb Meal and Rice, though as soon as she finishes the bag she is being switched to Chicken Soup for the Dog Lover's Soul. It pretty much costs the same, but is of much better quality..heck, I'm getting a deal! lol

 

When Cocoa first started having seizures I was only nine. I do remember that we had tests done, but I don't believe we had an MRI done.

 

Can't give you exact age, but about the age of 1.

 

Cocoa only has seizures maybe 3-5 times a year. We can never predict when tehy come, and the severity of them is always a surprise. Sometimes they will only last a mere 30 seconds, while otehr times she will have several 1 minute or more long seizures in a row.

 

I have gotten Cocoa off horrible Purina foods and onto healthier ones.

 

I have also tried to reduce stress by switching training methods to positive reinforcement. Before, with the encouragement of my dog training instructors, I would correct her to the point where she got nervous, scared, and I'd even yell at her when she wouldn't listen. This caused so much stress to her, that she once actually had a seizure right there in the middle of class. That day is when I decided no more. I ws going to train positively.

 

I have also taken great measures to keep her body temperature down when it is really hot and we are at outdoor agility trials. right now I am looking for some kind of ice pack blanket thingy for in her crate.

[Marilyn T]

Good luck Dawn. Epilepsy is a long rocky road. I had Lena who started seizuring at a year and a half. First we put her on phenobarb. Once it was stable (plan to do blood levels every 3-4 weeks) she was okay for about a year. Seizures about every 3-4 months. Then they started to increase, so we added Potassium bromide (KBr). Before we got the dosage up to theraputic (plan to do blood levels every 3-4 months too) she started to cluster. She was hospitalized for 10 days just before she turned three, with all kinds of protocols to try and stop the clustering. Eventually she was discharged on a valium derivative in addition to the phenobarb and KBr called Chlorazapate. Used that for about 6 months. BTW every additional drug affected the others... stable levels were suddenly low, or high, so plan for more testing. I weaned her off the chlorazapate over a 5 month period, and found the phenobarb was sub theraputic too. Weaned her off of that as well. (Again, taking 3-4 months to eliminate the drug. During all this time, as long as the levels were theraputic, we were holding at about 1-2 seizures per year. She was very functional, unlike some other epileptic dogs. We managed to win at least one open trial each year, and qualify to compete at the finals. Eventually she was just on KBr. For the past two years, she was only on KBr and had 1-2 seizures per year. I could never predict when she was going to have one. I avoided loud noises, flashing lights, etc. She was very proficient on the trial field, except for the 6 months on Chlorazapate... that made her a bit like a druggie. I changed her to an all natural food, with no preservatives early on... but the most important thing about food, is to always have the same salt content. That for me was accomplished by keeping her on a good quality kibble with excellent quality control, and no additional food from the table. You don't want to be switching foods and trying to regulate the drugs too. It makes it much harder. Good luck.

[Snorri the Priest]

This has been a bugbear of mine since Snorri-dog had his first attack at the age of three (about the usual time for presenting with idiopathic epilepsy).

His siezures started to accelerate until one night, in October 2001, he had a cluster of four fits in 30 minutes. He was rushed to the vet at 4 a.m., and put on phenobarbitone (2x 30mg per day).

 

I found http://www.canine-epilepsy.net/ extremely helpful and informative.

 

Not long ago, we found a brother with this accursed disease, and his people told us he ("Mickey") had grown out of it by himself. Our vet agreed that this can happen, and that weaning Snorri off the drugs could be tried. A week after stopping the phenobarb, the fits re-started, BUT at least we had found out that half the original dose was enough to keep him OK. (Good news,because Phenobarb can cause liver and kidney damage, over time. The less the dog gets, the better, if the dose is enough to control the fits). Now, he gets 2x15 mg per day.

 

Phenobarb has kept him free for four years, and he is a happy, healthy, alert little dog, just as he should be. He has never had an MRI scan, but he has had blood tests for liver and kidney function and therapeutic levels of phenobarb.

 

He eats the same stuff as his brother - minced offcuts from the local butcher (mainly lamb), plus leftovers and doggy treats.

 

He is a "farmyard tyke" - the offspring of the working dogs on an Orkney dairy farm - no formal pedigree. Epilepsy does run in his family, not that we knew it when we got him (nobody knew) - we found out later, by asking around.

 

Nowadays, there is no way you could tell that there had ever been anything wrong with him: according to the vet, all his insides are working properly and in need of no further tinkering about!

 

We never give him anything which contains excessive salt, and definitely NO CHOCOLATE. Apart from his pills, he gets no special treatment.

 

I think he looks OK......

 

Snorri

 

 

Read up on it, follow your vet's instructions, and DON'T PANIC!