Looking for breeder recommendations in SoCal area!

[iLLt3cK]

I've been doing my research and have thus far contacted Robin @ http://www.robinonthelamb.com with some questions regarding some of her 5-6 mos old pups she has available (no current or upcoming litters this year). I'm looking for any recommendations from you all to pick up a great BC from!

 

I'd be willing to drive anywhere in SoCal South of LA however it would be ideal if they were in San Diego county somewhere.

 

I've checked a bunch of breeder lists however most of their websites have no contact information or no puppy information so any help any of you can provide would be greatly appreciated.

 

The dog would be primarily a companion dog however I plan obedience school, as well as flyball / agility training. I also would not be averse to herding trials if I can find a place around that can facilitate that activity.

 

Thanks!

[Gary M]

Since you are looking primarily for a companion, there is really little valid reason to be looking for a breeder, particularly one with AKC registered dogs. (Read the Welcome READ THIS FIRST post at the top of this topic for more info)

I am sure someone from that area will be more than happy to provide you with a list of great rescues in So. Cal.

[Maralynn]

Hi! I'm not in your area so I can't reccomend a breeder for you. I did check out the website, and while it looks like she does a great job with her dogs, I would not buy from her because of the AKC affiliation. You can check out the Read this first thread for the general reasoning why.

 

Have you considered getting a dog through a rescue group? You can often find older pups or young adults there. Most of them are great dogs without issues - other than the previous owner didn't do their homework before getting one...

 

Do stick around here! There are lots of wonderful and helpful people here!

[iLLt3cK]

Ah, yes - forgive my hasty post but I had also read that the vast majority of border collie owners didn't like the whole akc affiliation due to their working nature and being a working breed that should only be bred to work in some people's opinions.

 

So a breeder like robinonthelamb wouldn't be a good breeder to purchase from because she is akc registered - even though she has multiple working titles as well as championships with the dogs she raises?

 

I'm definitely keeping an eye on the local rescues and have not eliminated them from my choice however I'm just keeping my options open at this point because I am still 2-3 months out from picking up a dog.

[SincereArtisan]

I think the point people here may be trying to make is that if you're looking for a companion BC, and you don't work sheep, or participate/train in any dog sports, that rescue may be a better route for you than purchasing a puppy from a breeder.

 

Not saying that you couldn't provide an adaquate home for a work-bred dog, but rescuing a dog in need can be one of the most rewarding experiences of all, not to mention it sets a great example to other dog lovers out there who always thought BCs were pretty to look at.

 

Thats one aspect of rescue I like a lot, when other people ask me where I got my dog, and I tell them she was a rescue, it really opens their eyes up to what treasures these rescue dogs can be. Many people view rescued dogs as broken, or too much work...not saying you do, of course, just stating that it is SO satisfying to prove to people how wonderful it can be to have a rescue. And working with a rescue dog has always been very rewarding, overcoming obstacles together, helping them through their fears, or simply providing the actively structured lifestyle a BC needs and seeing them respond appropriately to it...its very bonding.

 

I'm not saying you shouldn't buy from this breeder because she is AKC and whatnot. I just don't think its necessary, if all you're looking for is a companion. If papers don't matter to you, there is plenty of loving, active, BCs in need that look plenty pure-bred enough, and are aching for forever homes. And there are plenty out there with enough drive to do whatever you ask of them.

[iLLt3cK]

Originally posted by SincereArtisan:

I think the point people here may be trying to make is that if you're looking for a companion BC, and you don't work sheep, or participate/train in any dog sports, that rescue may be a better route for you than purchasing a puppy from a breeder.

 

Not saying that you couldn't provide an adaquate home for a work-bred dog, but rescuing a dog in need can be one of the most rewarding experiences of all, not to mention it sets a great example to other dog lovers out there who always thought BCs were pretty to look at.

 

Thats one aspect of rescue I like a lot, when other people ask me where I got my dog, and I tell them she was a rescue, it really opens their eyes up to what treasures these rescue dogs can be. Many people view rescued dogs as broken, or too much work...not saying you do, of course, just stating that it is SO satisfying to prove to people how wonderful it can be to have a rescue. And working with a rescue dog has always been very rewarding, overcoming obstacles together, helping them through their fears, or simply providing the actively structured lifestyle a BC needs and seeing them respond appropriately to it...its very bonding.

 

I'm not saying you shouldn't buy from this breeder because she is AKC and whatnot. I just don't think its necessary, if all you're looking for is a companion. If papers don't matter to you, there is plenty of loving, active, BCs in need that look plenty pure-bred enough, and are aching for forever homes. And there are plenty out there with enough drive to do whatever you ask of them.

Thank you for the words of wisdom.

 

I took a look at the California BC rescue and there are luckily quite a few dogs that I would consider picking up. The dog would primarily be a companion however as mentioned above I would most definitely have them involved in some sort of dog sport whether competitive or not - does that have any bearing on where I should choose my dog from?

 

I would hate to rescue a BC after limited contact at the foster home / rescue facility only to find out that they have extremely low prey drive and don't have much interest in frisbees, balls, etc.

 

I've read that BC's are generally a very hearty breed however I'd also want to avoid picking up a dog with a previously undisclosed problem such as CEA that a vet didn't pick up on or another problem if they are mixed with something else.

 

One reason I'm leaning towards a breeder is because even with their older pups they typically have the parents on hand as well as their medical history as well as already being certified for hip dysplasia, CEA, epilepsy, etc.

 

I appreciate everyone's input.

[Sue R]

...multiple working titles as well as championships...

Neither "multiple working titles" ("titles" is a very important concept in the AKC world) nor "championships" (if you are referring to conformation championships) are considered valid credentials in the world of the working Border Collie. This breeder competes both in AKC and USBCHA trials and quite successfully, as her website shows.

 

However, you may notice that this breeder's dogs are ABCA-bred dogs that are also registered AKC (any ABCA-bred dog may be registered AKC as its stud book is open to registering dogs from multiple registries such as ABCA and ISDS). It appears to me that, essentially, this breeder's dogs are working-bred ABCA/ISDS dogs that have been also registered AKC.

 

There appear to be some very competitive dogs in her program that compete at the highest levels of USBCHA Open competition, although she is also very involved in AKC and its breed club (BCSA). If I remember right (and I may well be wrong), she was on the AKC or BCSA conformation committee sometime recently.

 

There are people I know and respect that compete/breed in USBCHA/ABCA but are also active with AKC. I don't agree with that philosophy but that is their choice. The philosophy of this board is that the AKC is not a good thing for the Border Collie breed as its primary emphasis is not on the working-based characteristics that have made the breed what it is. Over time, dogs bred for non-working characteristics (conformation, performance, pet) in general quickly lose the essential characteristics that define the true Border Collie.

 

I do second the comments concerning your looking at rescue dogs/pups as an option, particularly since you are looking for a companion. Many rescue dogs make excellent performance (agility, obedience, etc.) prospects and some demonstrate good to great abilities on stock with proper training.

 

Remember that you can choose the best-bred pup in the world but it may mature with little or no talent or instinct for stock/performance. Choosing a rescue dog that has done some growing physically and mentally, and been evaluated in a foster home, may provide you an animal with just the characteristics you are looking for. Buying a pup gets you a dog with potential but no proof - adopting a rescue may get you a dog with proven potential. There are a number of threads on this board that may help you make a decision.

 

Best wishes on your decision and, of course, my comments are my opinion only.

[Ladybug1]

Both of my dogs are rescues. My english shepherd was adopted from a shelter where she had been surrendered. My border collie was from a rescue because he had originally been in a pet store and an inadequete family bought him. My border collie has lots of ball drive, and frisbee drive. I do agility with both of my dogs, and I as sson as I find a team close by my BC will be in flyball training. Rescuing my dogs has been such a rewarding experience. They are so devoted to me because they were given a second chace when others gave up on them.

Check out this webpage http://bcrescue.org/phpbb2/viewforum.php?f=22

Most of those dogs are rescues

[Dal & Mad's Mom]

I'm not going to tell you it cant happen that you rescue a dog to play and do sports and they dont. Penny doesn't fetch nor does she do agility. She did look promising on sheep. She's the dog you want when you are sick. Who will lay with you all day and keep you warm.

 

Mick and Frodo are both rescues and they do agility. Frodo if we can get him out may be a serious competator someday. He loves it so much he will work for anyone.

 

Dal was returned to Bonnie numerous times before I got him. He does agility well and fetches but, he also has a great off switch. I'm still looking for his therapy test. I think he would do great in reading to dogs.

 

If you do your homework you will probably get what you want and if not totally BC make great multidog home pets.

[Pat W.]

------------------------------

 

Thank you for the words of wisdom.

 

I took a look at the California BC rescue and there are luckily quite a few dogs that I would consider picking up. The dog would primarily be a companion however as mentioned above I would most definitely have them involved in some sort of dog sport whether competitive or not - does that have any bearing on where I should choose my dog from?

 

I would hate to rescue a BC after limited contact at the foster home / rescue facility only to find out that they have extremely low prey drive and don't have much interest in frisbees, balls, etc.

 

I've read that BC's are generally a very hearty breed however I'd also want to avoid picking up a dog with a previously undisclosed problem such as CEA that a vet didn't pick up on or another problem if they are mixed with something else.

 

One reason I'm leaning towards a breeder is because even with their older pups they typically have the parents on hand as well as their medical history as well as already being certified for hip dysplasia, CEA, epilepsy, etc.

____________________

 

Just an FYI about rescues and their procedures for adopting out a dog. I am a foster home for a BCR on the East Coast. Normally with a good reliable rescue you will need to submit an application to adopt. It then goes through a certain process, here at MABCR we do both a phone interview and a home visit once your application is received, once those two are done we foster homes then read them over and "talk" amongst ourselves via email to decide what dog might be an appropriate fit for your home and lifestyle. It may not be the dog you had in mind, but we try to make the best match we can for both dog and human. This process can take a couple of months depending on your schedule, the availibililty of a volunteer (99% of the workers in rescue are volunteers) and most importantly the availibility of a dog for you. You are right that rescue does not test for CEA or do Hips, these are costly tests (some will do hips at your cost) and we operate on donations,fund raisers and what income there is from adoption fees is sunk back into saving another dog and maintaining the facility. Foster homes such as I will take in a dog from rescue after its been vetted and start teaching basics, housebreaking if needed, manners on and off leash, basic obedience ect. Evaluate him/her with kids, cats, strangers, other dogs and all kinds of other things. Some dogs are in foster for a few weeks (a rare occurance) others for months. Not because they are hard dogs or there is somthing wrong with them but because we want the right home for them. Some dogs do need that time to adjust to the outside world, to the chance to actually be a dog and not just an object tied to a tree and ignored, or shut away and forgotten, or dumped on the streets. Foster teaches the dog how to trust and be a dog again. We also evaluate activity level in the dog, ballistic, merely hyper, mid range, or laid back. I have both a rescue and an ABCA dog. I would put the rescue on sheep well before I would put the ABCA dog on them. We are the 4th home for the ABCA dog he has terrible hips, is so cow hocked that his rear feet point WNW and ESE. His crowning glory is his temperment, sweet and patient as the day is long he taught my then 7yr old daughter to play agility. The rescue on the other hand oozes drive but has a nice on off switch, she's fast, toy and food motivated, loves agility and would probably be nice on sheep if I could get her tested and worked. She is now running agility with my daughter. So don't discount a rescue dog just because a parent is on the premises doesnt mean that all is well back in the genetic history of the dog. Also rescue does get dogs in from time to time where they do know the back ground and lineage of the dog.

[juliepoudrier]

Originally posted by iLLt3cK:

I would hate to rescue a BC after limited contact at the foster home / rescue facility only to find out that they have extremely low prey drive and don't have much interest in frisbees, balls, etc.

Hi, as the owner of both working dogs and rescues, I just want to second some of what PA Wellhauser said. A reputable rescue will have a dog in foster care long enough to evaluate it for things like suitability for a particular lifestyle, including working or sports.

 

As several others have said, the problem with a pup (7-8 weeks or thereabouts) is that you have *no idea* what the adult dog will be like. You could end up with the perfect companion sometime sports dog or you could end up with a dog with so much drive it drives you crazy during off time, or the opposite, a real couch potato. A reputable rescue will be able to tell you where a rescue falls within that spectrum. The other advantage to a young adult from rescue is that they are usually at an age where you can start training for your sport of choice right away. With a little pup, serious training can't even be started for at least a year (for any sports activity requiring jumping anyway).

 

I gather from your original post that you are considering older pups. If that's the case, then the breeder may well have some idea about personality, ball drive, fetch desire, etc.

 

I personally would not buy from a person who is involved with the AKC, but that's because I don't see any advantages to the working border collie to be associated with the AKC and so wouldn't spend my money where it could support AKC's efforts to take over the border collie.

 

Finally, with the exception of genetic testing for CEA, there are no guarantees that a pup from parents tested for other things (like hip structure) will not have medical issues. Of course breeding two dogs with, say, excellent hips increases the chances that the pups will have good hips, it's also possible to get a pup with less than that.

 

Anyway, I don't think the breeder you have mentioned is a bad choice as breeders go, since she at least is proving her working stock at the highest levels. I just wouldn't support her for the AKC connection. But, like I said, she may well have a good idea of the suitability of a 5-6 month old pup for the types of activities you wish to pursue, and if that's the case, then she wouldn't necessarily be a worse choice than rescue.

 

FWIW, I got into sheepdog trialing with a rescue dog. I have since gotten working-bred dogs, but that first rescue deserves all the credit for getting me started on the path I am now on--trialing at the national level and raising sheep.

 

So, while there is no one perfect answer to your question, you have certainly gotten enough viewpoints to help you make an informed decision.

 

J.

[iLLt3cK]

I truly appreciate everybody's input.

 

Thank you so much!

 

Are there any breeders that this board recommends for the Southern California area? If not for anything else I'd like to keep my options open and have a couple of reputable breeders in mind.

 

Thanks again! I've learned so much just from this one thread let alone the wealth of information that I haven't even tapped into yet.

[Cheri McDonald]

iLLt3ck: I just sent you an email. Be on the look out.

[iLLt3cK]

I'm so glad I found this board!

 

Everyone has been such a great help!!!!!

 

:eek:

[MJCHAMPION]

http://hometown.aol.com/bc2sheep/jack_index.html

 

I purchased my dog from him 2 years ago...Great tempermant couldn't be happier

[Sue R]

If you don't find a breeder that suits you in your area, travelling to pick up a pup/rescue or having a pup/dog shipped are options. I travelled six hours each way and each time for Skye, Celt, and Bute and count the travel well worth it. I go further for the right dog from the right source, be it a pup from a breeder or a rescue. Considering all the other costs inherent in raising a pup and properly caring for a pup/dog, plus training, the cost of purchasing/adopting the right pup/dog (and going to pick it up or shipping it) is relatively minor, in my opinion.

 

I hope you get some good references from folks on the board and are successful at finding the animal you want. It seems you are set on a pup and I hope whatever you get is a good match for what you want.

 

My first working-bred pup was "a quiet, laid-back fellow" as described by the breeder as a pup when I picked him up. He turned out to be a ball of fire in no time at all, until he was killed at six months of age. I think he would have been totally bold on our cattle and fearless, with great instincts, like his father had been.

 

My next working-bred pup was a "nicely balanced pup and outgoing", but has some confidence issues when working (may largely be due to my inept handling) and matured into a dog with reservations about strangers. Not at all what he was as a pup...

 

My recent working-bred pup was "bold and fearless, never backing down, and very outgoing with people, making friends with everyone he meets". However, in my experience, he has been very shy with people (it takes him a long time to accept someone new who shows any "interest" in him). On the other hand, he is very bold with our cattle in his limited exposure to them. He's totally submissive to our adult dogs but not good with outgoing pups (reserved pups are more acceptable to him), quite the opposite of what he was like as a little pup.

 

What I'm trying to say is that while there is puppy temperament evaluation of several types and you may meet and see how the parents are tempermentally and how they work/play, etc., that is never a guarantee of how a pup will mature. My dogs have all been quite different than they were as young pups - their personalities have changed as they grew into older pups/young dogs.

 

Please do not rule out rescue as an option but, whatever you choose, I hope it works out well for all concerned. Best wishes!

[Dal & Mad's Mom]

Another thought about a older pup is that you can accurately guess their personality.

 

I was at my friends today and there are 3 pups there all about 20 weeks. One was a happy wiggler one was an agressive seeker of attention and one was reserved.

She would allow me to pet her but, stayed by her owner.

 

At 8 weeks I would have judged all those pups wrong.