Sport Breeding

[Rave]

I think education is the key to reaching the sports folk. Perhaps a demo at an agility trial, or a herding trial held in conjunction with a non-AKC agility trial - like Oatlands used to do. Let the sports people meet these fine working dogs in person.

 

I think Laurie has a good idea. I have friends looking for BC pups now, I'd love to be able to send them to a website and have them contact good breeders. I think what littlehats.net has is a very good start.

 

Laurie, or anyone else, could you email me privately and let me know anything you know about the Hob Nob kennels? Thanks!

[kajarrel]

I think the website is a good idea, but how do you determine the "good breeders"? I have in mind a breeder that is currently listed on one of the (respected) herding club websites that didn't/couldn't register multiple litters of pups (although she promised to), keeps her dogs in crates for extended periods of time, uses some what I consider to be unusually cruel training practices, yada, yada . . . But she breeds for herding ability and has some pretty nice dogs. Is she a reputable breeder? What type of monitoring and enforcement should/can be done?

 

Not arguing with you, just trying to figure out the logistics of such a website.

 

Kim

[kelpiegirl]

I think that those buying Border Collies for agility will continue to buy from those who have sold BC's for agility, especially if those dogs have done well. It is supply and demand. In my area, there are several related dogs from a few well known breeders. Everyone wants to know where so and so came from etc. I do not subscribe to the idea that it is okay to breed for sports- what you get are very high drive dogs who NEED HIGH activity daily, and lose their on/off switch, and in some cases good temperaments are lost. I would MUCH prefer a dog who did well in agility, than one who does awesome in agility, but could not calm down. I say, leave the breeding to those who know what a good Border Collie is (working), and not to someone who knows what THEY want in a BC.

 

Julie

[Howdyjabo]

If they want a dog specifically bred for agility- I have no problem with that. If your goal is to be the best you buy the dog that is bred to be the best- no problem with that.

 

What I do have a problem with is continueing to call them Border Collies and sell them as Border Collies.

Change their name to Agility Collies and I have no issue.

 

The Breed Border Collie IS a herding dog--- breeding for any other purpose changes the breed--

Is it too much to ask that when you change the breed you change the name too????

[laurie etc]

Originally posted by kajarrel:

I think the website is a good idea, but how do you determine the "good breeders"? . . . But she breeds for herding ability and has some pretty nice dogs. Is she a reputable breeder? What type of monitoring and enforcement should/can be done?

Not arguing with you, just trying to figure out the logistics of such a website.

Kim

Kim ,here's my stab at a Code of Ethics for a breeder wanting to list with a referral. He/she must sign it in order to list a litter, as well as be willing to supply the necessary paperwork to the referral person. I altered it from the Golden Club COE I belonged to...

 

-----------------------------------------

Sample CODE OF ETHICS

All members and applicants must agree with the Constitution and By-Laws of the ?(ABCA or regional organization, i.e., VBCA?)?.

The following code of ethics is presented as an encouragement to members whose goal should be the welfare and improvement of the working Border Collie.

Ethical breeding is the backbone of the future of the Border Collie breed. Each litter should be appropriately planned to uphold and improve the working heritage and ability of the breed.

Breeders must ask themselves if they have the knowledge, time, and resources to be a breeder. This issue affects the quality, health, and future of the animals themselves, as well as the breed. Breeders have a responsibility to research and understand genetics, common breed problems, and the particular attributes or faults in a line they plan to perpetuate.

This code applies to both the owners of the brood bitch and the stud dog:

1. All breeding stock should be of sound temperament and free of any serious inheritable defects.

2. Both parents should have at a minimum:

a. A fair or better hip rating by the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals (OFA), non-dysplastic Cornell University Hip reading or Penn-Hip equivalent.

b. An current eye check and be certified normal by the Canine Eye registry (CERF) or an annual eye examination or report from an AVCO Board certified ophthalmologist marked "normal" for both eyes, or a ?non-affected? DNA certification.

3. Dogs with other serious inheritable diseases such as epilepsy, severe allergies, or auto immune disorders should be excluded from a breeding program. Any unprovoked aggression is contrary to the Border Collie breed, and a dog with these tendencies should not be bred.

4. A bitch should not be allowed to produce an excessive number of litters. Sufficient time should be allowed between litters for the bitch to recuperate.

5. Routine veterinary care prior to each breeding is essential to evaluate the condition of the dog or bitch. Care should be taken not to breed any dog or bitch that is not in top condition.

 

In applying to list this Border Collie litter, I certify that am a member in good standing of ??? for the current year; and agree to and will abide by the aforementioned Code of Ethics. I understand that the Board of Directors of the ??? reserves the right to exclude my listing for due cause.

 

Signature/Date

 

... (page 2)

If you have decided to breed, these suggestions are offered:

1. All puppy buyers should be carefully screened to ensure their ability to care humanely and responsibly for the dog. Puppies will not be sold to puppy mills, laboratories, or pet shops.

2. Breeders are responsible for their puppies for life, and must be willing to: offer consultation to resolve problems; assist in finding another home, if necessary; or take the dog back at any time.

3. Education of the puppy buyer. The breeder should provide the following information: properly socialization of the puppy, crate training, health record of puppy (past and future inoculation schedule).

4. Abide by applicable state regulations concerning the sale, placement and care of puppies (including inoculations).

5. ABOVE ALL, BREEDERS SHOULD BE HONEST when dealing with puppy purchaser in all matters: a. Pedigrees; b. Clearances; c. Inherited attributes.

 

Conduct of individual members:

1. Good sportsmanship should be shown at all dog-related activities.

2. Members should make themselves available to assist novices and the general public with information concerning the working Border Collie.

3. Only humane methods should be used when trialing or training dogs. Under no circumstances will mistreatment or brutality be tolerated.

4. .When confronted by a situation not covered in this code of ethics, the member will conduct themselves as they would like to be treated.

5. In general all members should provide: a. adequate food, water, and shelter from the elements; b. routine medical care; c. kind and responsible ownership.

[Rhino]

I'm sorry if many in the sport world find approaching working dog folk intimidating. Most of us are regular people just like them!

Having just gotton started in herding i ahve found most working folk to be wonderful. My boy was given to me by a working family as a sporting dog and they were happy enough that he was going to a home where he would be kept busy.

 

As for working bred dogs in sporting homes maybe not being suitable i have seen it myself, sometimes the dogs are considered too "agressive" and the handlers have little to no control .

[Annette Carter & the Borderbratz]

I think that sometimes the problem is that the "click & treat only" only crowd don't make good owners for harder dogs. I use click & treat as a training tool but it isn't the only one I have. I have 2 working bred BCs and one English Shepherd, which IMO, is a harder dog to own and earn it's respect than a BC and they are all bitches. So I pretty much have to be hard on them but they are happy and everyone plays very nice. People at my agility classes akways look at me sideways if I snatch a dog up for breaking a stay. The thing I tell them is "yeah, but you don't see it often do you? compared to some that are forever calling their dogs to them and getting blown off.

[krazy15k]

I have a blue merle, and she works, and so far she is really good at it! I think it is unfair to say that there aren't merles out there that are worth breeding, but I do think it is irresponsible to breed a BC just to get one attribute. They should be bred to maintain an intelligent, athletic, beautiful, working breed. So, I Might be a little partial but I hope my next one is another working merle. I know it might take longer to find one from a reputable breeder, but I don't think this means I am looking for a fashion color, some people are just drawn to certain colors more. Second best I like dogs that are mostly black, I think different people like different things, and as long as they are bred reputable, and the owner is responsible I don't think color matters either way.

 

I think that the dogs should be bred to work, because when you start breeding for other qualities you lose some of the original attributes that make these dogs so great. I think it is amazing that they excel at so many activities, but the reason they do is because they are herding dogs. But, I think a lot of times people get caught up in the sport, and there animal becomes a tool, and at that point people will breed whomever to whomever to try and get some advantage. Which in my opinion these people aren't worried about preserving working heritage but getting themselves the best sport dog. Sorry if that was offensive to anyone, I didn't mean it like that towards anyone on this board.