Jump to content
BC Boards
Sign in to follow this  
sea4th

"Natural"Treatment of Epilepsy

Recommended Posts

Someone I know has a totally holistic approach to dog care. Her dogs are entirely raw fed, no shots, no chemicals. Her dogs look wonderful and don't have any health issues.

 

A little over a year ago, she had had an accidental breeding resulting in 6 pups---collie/border collie. She placed two, and kept four because homes which would comply with her dog care and health regimen are few and far between, so rather than the pups going to a home where they wouldn't be cared for according to her standards (standards being no kibble, all raw, no shots, and so on), she kept them. They truly are nice, nice pups, now a little over a year old.

 

Last weekend, one of the youngsters had 3 seizures over the weekend. He is of an age is prime for the onset of idiopathic epilepsy. However, I'd have to see another couple of bouts before I'd be convinced that the seizures are not due to anything else.

 

I discussed this with her. She is trying to connect these seizures with external influences, which is normal to do that, and actually quite possible. However, when I brought up the subject of possibly being epileptic, that this is the prime age for this to happen, her answer sort of surprised me.

 

Apparently, if it cannot be treated homeopathically, then she will put down an otherwise nice dog. I've known people not into holistic care, put down dogs at the first sign of seizures, rather than deal with it. OK, I can sort of understand that. The fact though that if homeopathic meds don't work, to me isn't a sufficient reason to euthanize the dog. Natural meds would not have worked on Dolly. I did what I had to do, i.e., kbr & PB because between her bouts of seizures, she lived a quality life---although, since she died, I'm questioning a lot of things.

 

Am I missing something here?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's odd but I guess it's her choice. The fact is, honestly, that for seizure disorder that comes on this early, and comes on strong (that wasn't clear), medication is only putting off the inevitable and quality of life is questionable for heavily medicated dogs. It depends on the cause and the severity of course.

 

However, it's true that there's no real reason that I know of, to reject pharmaceuticals when they are clearly indicated to save the dog's life or make a significant improvement in its quality of life. Yes, they are "chemicals", but so are the active ingredients in most herbal treatments. Most holistical medical practitioners do not go so far as to reject all allopathic treatments - instead they incorporate them into their holistic approach.

 

Just my opinion, of course.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Vicki,

You say: I did what I had to do, i.e., kbr & PB because between her bouts of seizures, she lived a quality life---although, since she died, I'm questioning a lot of things.

 

Could you email me privately about some things you are questioning? Our less than 2 year old BC has had 3 bouts of cluster seizures since the end of February. She was put on pheno after the first group and the pheno has been increased twice since then. On June 2, she goes in for more blood tests to see what the pheno in her blood actually amounts to. (I'm about to ask my own doctor for an RX for Valium!)

Thanks,

Barb S [email protected]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

>

 

If I'm understanding you correctly -- if she's saying that when a dog has some disorder which can be treated "with chemicals," but cannot be treated homeopathically, she will put the dog down -- I think that's bloody appalling.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have to agree with Eileen - this lady sounds a bit on the fanatical side to me. It also sounds, ( a little sidewalk psychology here) that she may not want to live with the fact that her 'organic' method of breeding/raising dogs has produced a 'defective' specimen, and would rather put the dog down than be reminded of it.

 

Very, very ugly.

 

Ruth n the BC3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Vicki, I do have friend with an epileptic BC who uses a combo of Phenobarb and some Chinese herbs to control his seizures - he's been seizure free for probably 2 years now. I honestly don't know exactly what herbs she uses, but if you PM me, I'll see if I can get the name of the vet she uses here in VA- maybe your friend could check that option out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Check the Border Collie Museum website,the site owner had a dog with epilepsy that was progressively getting worse and out of desperation tried vitamin E when the dosage of phenobarb was raised so high it was damaging the liver.She says her dog never seized again and lived for years after,gradually being weaned off the phenobarbital altogether.I have a 9 yr old BC with epilepsy who currently gets a combination of phenobarb and vitamin E and she has been seizure free since I started giving her the E,about 3 months now.She still gets her phenobarb,butI will try to wean her off slowly if she makes it through a year seizure free.She came to us as a rescue due to her owners being transferred,and they had dealt with cluster seizures for 3 yrs with this dog.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks everyone for your responses.

 

Barb, I PM'd you.

 

If I'm understanding you correctly -- if she's saying that when a dog has some disorder which can be treated "with chemicals," but cannot be treated homeopathically, she will put the dog down -- I think that's bloody appalling.

BINGO!

 

this lady sounds a bit on the fanatical side to me.
BINGO again.

 

That's odd but I guess it's her choice
quality of life is questionable for heavily medicated dogs. It depends on the cause and the severity of course.
I totally agree with you on both counts.

 

I will certainly suggest the combo of Vitamin E & phenobarb to her, but my gut feeling is, is that she wants no introduction of any sort of chemicals, but it's worth a try.

 

I'd even be willing to take the dog rather than have him euthanized, but again, I'd don't think she'd go for it.

 

Looking back, futile as it is, I wish I would have known about Vit. E. I'd have tried anything with Dolly. But again, she'd gone for seizure free periods for as long as 14 months. The ones that finally killed her, came back with a vengeance. I'm always questioning whether I did all I could for her.

 

Laurie, I will IM you. It's worth the try.

 

Thanks guys.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bravo again to Eileen for putting it so succinctly!

 

I applauded those who use natural methods, but to the exclusion of all else seems a tad short sighted. We are entitled to our own thoughts and opinions and while I may not agree with them. One can only hope that Sea4ths valiant efforts for an acceptable alternative will prevail.

I have a friend who refused to treat her Rough Collie for seizures. Finally it didn't come out of one and had to have emergency treatment. I was appalled, but then she is appalled I have an on going vet bill that rivals the national debt. To each his own point on the subject of care. I would be interested in the Vitamin E in conjunction with Phenobarbital, as my nieces Standard poodle seizures, and is about to graduate to Potassium Bromide.

It seems Rough Collies and Standard poodles I have known are more subject to seizures than other breeds.

Are BCs in that same group? I didn't think so from my research. Even though it is indicated as something to watch for.

Andrea D.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I suspect epilepsy is one of those things that is emerging with the advent of less-work tested lines -like exercise intolerance and various other issues of vague unsoundness. I hope we as people who care about the breed will be honest with ourselves as the causes of seizure disorder are uncovered. Epilepsy is such a heartbreak.

 

I know someone who can't work her dog for fear of creating enough stress to trigger a seizure. He does other stuff with no problem, however, which is what got me thinking that high-level stock training and work weeds out a lot of this stuff early on.

 

IT's interesting how nutritional supplements can really boost pharmeceutical therapy. I've mentioned how I used milk thistle and B in conjunction with the lactolose and antibiotics to turn Greg's liver insufficency around. Likewise, I started giving Ben B12 along with his Anipryl and his cognitive dysfunction took an almost immediate 100% improvement.

 

Also with Ben, he was getting daily Lasix for idiopathic fluid buildup in his lungs (probably related to the Lyme he had). We were raising his dose and it was getting a little better but he was still coughing and one day he actually collapsed from oxegen deprivation. Then I started him on CoQ10 and within a couple days he had stopped coughing completely and eventually we were able to lower his Lasix to almost nothing. His endurance is now better than it ever was even in his prime. :rolleyes:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh, I would also point out to the lady with the epileptic youngster, that vitamin E deficiency is the number one problem with home-prepared diets. If she doesn't supplement with E, she might want to rethink putting that dog down, at least until she's tried supplementing with a good antioxidant combination, including selenium, too (E helps process selenium, which is of primary importance in nervous system maintenance).

 

Many dogs can process and use the small amounts of E available in their diets and never need supplements, but there ARE some which are less able to do so.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

we have switched vets and our new one has pulled our golden off of pheno.he has put him on vitamin b-12.he also noted liver damage was likly due to the pheno.we are currently having the same amount(1 grand mal per month)off the pheno as on it.happy dog vs.drugged dog.if the situation dictates we will go the bromide route.its nice to see him run with the borders again.the b-12 dosage is a normal human adult dosage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I suspect epilepsy is one of those things that is emerging with the advent of less-work tested lines -like exercise intolerance and various other issues of vague unsoundness.

 

Rebecca, it's interesting that you think pet breedings are bringing execise intolerance into the breed since with Labs this is more in the working lines than the pet lines.

 

The syndrome of exercise intolerance and collapse (EIC) is being observed with increasing frequency in young adult Labrador Retrievers. Most, but not all, affected dogs have been from field-trial breedings. source: Susan M. Taylor, DVM
Mark

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

More on EIC

 

We also determined that EIC in Labrador retrievers is an inherited disease that is most likely autosomal recessive. We now are using the DNA of more than 140 affected dogs and their relatives to try to identify the chromosomal location of the genetic mutation responsible for EIC. Once the genetic defect is identified, a non-invasive DNA testing will be able to identify dogs that carry this gene as well as dogs that are affected before they start to show clinical signs. Source: Morris Animal Foundation interview of Dr Taylor

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pet breedings are almost all (around here, anyway) working lines, which are bred without regard to whether they CAN work or not. There's a huge difference between breeding FROM working lines, and breeding WITH working in mind. I think metabolically, mentally, and structurally this breed walks a fine line between soundness and unsoundness - the only thing that keeps it on the right side of the line is constant vigilance to its ACTUAL abilty to work.

 

Just my humble non-expert opinion gleaned from years of doing rescue - almost all pets and sport dogs bred from WORKING lines.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×