karrider Posted April 3, 2005 Report Share Posted April 3, 2005 You know what I hate to eat crow,but for once I come to this board looking for a little back up, I really thought that the Border Collie fraternity would be sensible about the new DNA test and originally it was hailed as a great step forward in identifying and breeding on from carrier dogs, to my horror now I am hearing more and more about only breeding normal to normal, this is such a big mistake in the haste to rid the world of CEA, which in itself is not the worst thing to have, I'd rather a carrier dog than a crippled with HD dog!! choosing the route of normal to normal is literally going to lead down a blind alley......... I made the mistake of making the comment that exceptional dogs in the genepool would be lost and then challenged to name them my mind as usual went blank, I could only think of Ceri's dog, and even then only the prefix shook itself loose from the recesses of my brain! thoughts??? regards karin p.s. Please don't turn this into another anti show dog jump fest, theories and maybe examples of good or exceptional dogs appreciated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hdk9s Posted April 3, 2005 Report Share Posted April 3, 2005 Didnt we already go thru this? Go to the othe thread lots to learn there and you can see me acting a butthead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karrider Posted April 3, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2005 Originally posted by High Desert K9s:Didnt we already go thru this? Go to the othe thread lots to learn there and you can see me acting a butthead Err No we haven't gone through this at all, yes CEA was discussed but not in the context of breeders choosing to disregard carrier status and opting only for clear to clear matings.I was also asking for examples of exceptionally good working dogs who have been de registered due to producing CEA.Karin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tassie Posted April 4, 2005 Report Share Posted April 4, 2005 Karin, there was a pretty comprehensive discussion of this topic on Sheepdog-L a while back - last month, or maybe even late February. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sheepdog-L/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eileen Stein Posted April 4, 2005 Report Share Posted April 4, 2005 Karin, I believe the dog you're thinking of is Bwlch Hemp (great example for your side). A few others that come to mind are Willie Welsh's Don, Bobby Dalziel's Dryden Joe, John Thomas's Don and Viv Billingham's Garry. Of course, those come from the pre-DNA test days when there was no way to tell a carrier except to look at the litters s/he produced, and many were not identified because they never happened to be bred to another carrier. No doubt lots more will be showing up with DNA-testing. I'm sorry to hear about the trend you describe. It doesn't seem to be happening here in the US, at least among the working dog folks, which is all I'm really in a position to know about. I have a friend who is planning to breed her fantastic bitch later this spring, and has a long list of aspirants for the puppies. Nobody backed out when DNA tests showed her bitch was a carrier. Of course, she'll be breeding her to a clear dog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northof49 Posted April 4, 2005 Report Share Posted April 4, 2005 Karin, who is recommeinding breeding only clear to clear - the working dog community or the people that breed for the conformation ring? I can understand the show people advocating that as they aren't concerned about the working ability of their dogs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karrider Posted April 4, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2005 Originally posted by Northof49:[QB] Karin, who is recommeinding breeding only clear to clear - the working dog community or the people that breed for the conformation ring? I can understand the show people advocating that as they aren't concerned about the working ability of their dogs. At present it is mainly show/agility/obedience, a few working poeple have made comments also,personally I don't think it matters who is making the comments ,the genetic health and best interests of the dogs lie at the heart of it, I do not want to see CEA eradicated in one fell swoop only to leave the genepool here in the UK wide open to other worse inherited conditions. regards karin p.s. to Tassie thank you for recommending the thread mentioned in your post, still trawling through it all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted April 4, 2005 Report Share Posted April 4, 2005 Here are a couple of long threads dealing with the CEA issue. http://bordercollie.heatherweb.com/cgi-bin...ic;f=4;t=001093 http://bordercollie.heatherweb.com/cgi-bin...ic;f=4;t=001102 Folks got a little hot on this discussion but, I believe that some very good points and opinions are to be found here. I think these are the threads that HighDesertK9s is referring to. The Sheep-L thread is also very educational. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hdk9s Posted April 4, 2005 Report Share Posted April 4, 2005 Err No we haven't gone through this at all, yes CEA was discussed but not in the context of breeders choosing to disregard carrier status and opting only for clear to clear matings.I was also asking for examples of exceptionally good working dogs who have been de registered due to producing CEA.Karin Yup see the links posted it was discussed! Over and over again! You can get you answers there I am sure. I learned and now maybe you can learn opinions too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karrider Posted April 5, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2005 Thank you for your comments ,Eileen has given me what I was originally requesting in my post,(Thank you for the names) examples of dogs that are considered exeptional but due to CEA status black marked. The previous examples of the threads are very much hypothetical, the arguments I am seeing over here are very much of the here and now and the trend that seems to be arising is for me very worrying, regards karin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackacre Posted April 5, 2005 Report Share Posted April 5, 2005 According to he annotated pedigree I have for one of my dogs, Dryden Joe produced affecteds, Dryden Joe's sire Fortune's Glen sired at least four recorded carriers, Bwlch Taff 113243 sired at least three. Hartford Logan's Imp. Jim's dam Lassie 139121 is also recorded as producing affecteds. Jim was the sire of numerous good dogs, including Ralph's Tweed. Contemplate the dogs that we would not have just removing these few from the gene pool. A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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