glacier end Posted July 4, 2003 Report Share Posted July 4, 2003 I just purchased my Border Collie pup (8 wks. old) yeserday. I lost my 17 year old Border Collie last year. I was wondering if anyone was using Ivermectin based heartworm protection? (such as Heartguard). 17 years ago there was some problem with Collies using it. My Vet states that it is such a low dose there should be no problem. I was just wanting to know if anyone is using it safely. Thank-you.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fosher Posted July 4, 2003 Report Share Posted July 4, 2003 I've been using either Heartgard and the new generic Iverheart for the past 10 years with no ill effects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeattleSteve Posted July 4, 2003 Report Share Posted July 4, 2003 Don't know about this subject but I saw your name and wanted to show you a picture I took a couple of months ago at Sawyer's Glacier, in Alaska. Cool, huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northof49 Posted July 4, 2003 Report Share Posted July 4, 2003 A lady that I know just had two dogs die from seizuring after being given Ivermectin based heartworm products. She has been warned by her vet NOT to give those to her dogs and she went and got the products from someone else, as he wouldn't sell them to her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucy Goosey Posted July 4, 2003 Report Share Posted July 4, 2003 Everything I have read about it is that at the proper dosage, it should be safe for BCs. However, my trainer asserts that in her experience as a professional trainer, she has seen several BCs have reactions to Heartgard, in the form of aggressive episodes shortly after receiving the medication. I realize this is one person's observation, and there is nothing scientific about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
workindogs Posted July 4, 2003 Report Share Posted July 4, 2003 Alot of people who are worried about Ivomectin sensivity, use Interceptor instead. Elizabeth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sea4th Posted July 4, 2003 Report Share Posted July 4, 2003 The results of a study which were published last year in a veterinary trade journal indicates a genetic link of collie & collie-type breeds to sensitivity to Ivermectin. I've had my dogs on Interceptor for years. Vicki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northof49 Posted July 4, 2003 Report Share Posted July 4, 2003 I am so thankful that I don't need to use heartworm medication or flea/tick products for my dogs at all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trailrider Posted July 4, 2003 Report Share Posted July 4, 2003 I used ivermectin liquid - sheep wormer - in the drench form for many many years. I have had collies and border collies only. Never had problem. I don`t use the expensive formulations the drug companies make up in the pills etc. To spend more money, I think the interceptor would be safer than the drench. They have found the gene that causes the problem, but the dosage has to be a big influence in the situation. And how far north do we have to go to not need these chemicals??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipedream Farm Posted July 4, 2003 Report Share Posted July 4, 2003 Why is it many people talk about the sensitivity of collie type dogs to Ivermectin but not Interceptor? The product inserts for both Heartgard and Interceptor report sensitivity in this same group of dogs. According to the Heartgard insert sensitive collies show no adverse reactions up to 10x the minimum dose while this same group of dogs show no adverse reactions up to 20x the minimum dose of Interceptor. Neither drug is 100% safe, why do people act like Interceptor is definetly safer than Heartgard if both are used as prescribed? Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fosher Posted July 4, 2003 Report Share Posted July 4, 2003 Mark, Ever hear of decimal slip? I think some of the ivermectin horror stories you hear are caused by just that. The heartworm preventative dose of ivermectin for dogs is measured in micrograms, while the dosage for sheep is expressed in miligrams per kilogram. I figured out one time that the amount of Ivomec sheep drench I would need to give my dogs was so minute that I didn't feel I could measure it accurately. Then I hear about folks giving their dogs 1 cc of Ivomec cattle injectible orally. I believe that the amount of ivermectin in that dose would be enough to kill an ivermectin-sensitive dog. The fact that their dogs don't die only proves that they are not ivermectin sensitive, not that the practice is safe. With Interceptor, the window of safety is twice that of ivermectin. Plus, the active ingredient in Interceptor isn't available without a prescription at Tractor Supply or in all the livestock catalogs. I think it's mostly a question of people having heard horror stories, not so much a matter of reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipedream Farm Posted July 4, 2003 Report Share Posted July 4, 2003 I guess I forget that while concentrations, dilutions, measuring liquids, etc is my stock and trade and therefore second nature; it is a mystery to others. 1 cc of a 1% Ivermectin solution would be close to 100x the minimum dose for most BCs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tassie Posted July 4, 2003 Report Share Posted July 4, 2003 FWIW I just checked with a vet in Canberra (Australian Capital Territory) where they routinely dose dogs preventively for HW. They use chewable Heartguard monthly as their treatment of choice and they are satisfied from their (large) practice that the dose is sufficiently low that they haven?t seen any adverse reactions in Border Collies over a number of years. I said I had heard of problems with the 6 months injection (there?s a thread on this somewhere in the archives), and the vet said they didn?t use that. I got the impression they were waiting for more information on adverse reactions to the shots. Here in southern Tasmania (the colder end of Oz) we don?t have heartworm yet, but the issue arises when the dogs travel in HW areas on the mainland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fosher Posted July 6, 2003 Report Share Posted July 6, 2003 Let's take a 40-lb. dog as an example. If you had an ivermectin sensitive dog, 4 tenths of a cc of 1 percent ivermectin injectible could kill it. A 40 lb dog on Heartgard or Iverheart would receive 136 micrograms of ivermectin. A dose of .4 cc of 1 percent Ivomec cattle injectible contains 4,000 micrograms of ivermectin, or about 29 times the correct dose, which is well outside the window of safety for ivermectin-sensitive dogs. The sheep drench is less concentrated than the cattle injectible at .08 percent ivermectin. At .2 cc of sheep drench, you'd be providing 160 micrograms, or just about the same dosage as the Heartgard. I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm not real confident in my ability to measure two tenths of a cc and to make sure that it all gets into the dog. I suppose I could just assume that 1 cc of sheep drench (5x the correct dose) would be within the margin of safety for ivermectin-sensitive dogs, but I guess I'd rather not screw around like that. Personal choice. The simple fact of the matter is that you don't know if your dog is ivermectin sensitive or not until you overdose it, and then it's too late. I think that people looking for a cheap way out (which I generally applaud) have given ivermectin products a bad rap by using them incorrectly. If you use it correctly, it should be perfectly safe, and it remains very effective in dogs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haflingerrider Posted July 6, 2003 Report Share Posted July 6, 2003 This was the dose given to me by a large animal vet we used. I use a 1 cc syringe that is for diabetics. It is broken down into very small graduations. I am not reccomending anyone try this dosage and most likely should not have posted what I do, for fear someone else use it, not under a vets care and loose a dog. I would not want that on my conscience. Actually I think I will delete the post with the directions on how I use the ivermectin. Just so someone can't use the dosage I provided and loose a dog. Thanks for the incentive to do the right thing Bill! In the future I will be more careful to not practice veterinary medicine in any public forum. I don't always remember that it isn't just you guys on here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipedream Farm Posted July 6, 2003 Report Share Posted July 6, 2003 Bill, I'm with you on being concerned about measuring small volumes. At work I routinely measure volumes as small as 0.5 uL (microliters) and on occasion 0.1 uL; I have measured my accuracy and precision at these volumes. However, I only measure these volumes with an Eppendorf Pippette which is designed to do this job. I trust my ability to measure 0.1 mL with a 1 cc syringe; however, while we use Ivermectin on our dogs I always carefully do a dilution of the 1% solution so that I can more accurately dose our dogs. This allows me to keep the volumes I work with in a range where I trust my accuracy with a 1 cc syringe. While I have the confidence in my abilities to do this work, I do not recommend this procedure for everyone. I do these procedures for a living and am cognizant of the implications subtle procedural changes can have on accuracy. Mark BTW: if you do the math for the minimum dose per body weight of dog you'll find that the midrange Heartgard tablet doses dogs at 2x to 1x the minimum dose (26 lb dog gets ca. 2x while a 50 lb dog gets 1x). Note that the product inserts refer to it as the minimum dose, not the correct dose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.