Speedy1 Posted June 30, 2003 Report Share Posted June 30, 2003 First of all I'd like to say that I'm new to this board and have found this to be a GREAT place to get help with our border collie "concerns." We have three sweet & wonderful BCs: 4-year old Gunner; 4-year old Tass and 1-year old Otis. Four weeks ago Tass had 9 beautiful black & white BC pups - they are the source of our concerns. In this litter we have one female with two blue eyes, and one male and one female with one blue and one brown eye each. Is it rare to have a BC puppy with 2 blue eyes? And....we think one of our pups might be deaf, either that or she's a "deep-sleeper." When we enter the dog pen, all the puppies are usually asleep until they hear the gate open. At that point they all wake up and start jumping around - all expect one pup. She usually doesn't wake up until one of the other pups jumps on her. Maybe this isn't a good thing, but we've tried clapping near her to try and startle her, but that doesn't work either. In the past, I read (or was told) that if a dog's upper body is pure white there is a greater chance it could be deaf. The coloring of this pup is white from stomach to head and black from stomach to tail. There is just a bit of black speckled on her ears. Does color really have anything to do with deafness, and how old does a puppy have to be before it can be tested for deafness? Thanks for all your help!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildairbc Posted June 30, 2003 Report Share Posted June 30, 2003 Hi, From what you have described, I would believe that the puppy is undoubtedly deaf. There are many causes of deafness and lack of pigment in the ear is one of them. It would seem to be the case here. I would recommend that you do some reading on the difficulties encountered with deaf dogs and consult your vet for the best course of action. Sincerely, Bonnie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSnappy Posted June 30, 2003 Report Share Posted June 30, 2003 Originally posted by Speedy1:In this litter we have one female with two blue eyes Is the blue-eyed puppy also the deaf one, by chance? Sorry, I am editing this to include the thread that took place when I asked a similar question, as it was most informative: http://bordercollie.heatherweb.com/ubb/ult...t=004043#000000 RDM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eileen Stein Posted June 30, 2003 Report Share Posted June 30, 2003 It's unusual to have a border collie pup with two blue eyes, but certainly not unknown. Many border collies have one or two blue eyes. In some breeds congenital deafness is associated with blue eyes and/or with white coloration (the Dalmatian is the best known example), and in some breeds it is not. To the best of my knowledge, there is no evidence of such an association in border collies. There are many blue-eyed border collies, predominately-white border collies, and even white-eared border collies with excellent hearing. Naturally a few individuals with these characteristics are deaf, but whether there are more such individuals than would be expected from sheer chance has never been established. Whenever I've come across any claim that, for example, white border collies disproportionately carry genetic deafness, I try to follow it up. So far I've always found this claim to be based very loosely on data from other breeds. (I should mention that the white offspring of a breeding of two merles are very likely to be deaf, but different genes are involved in that case, and I gather the parents of your litter are not merles.) In any case, you can test puppies for this type of deafness at 5 weeks of age. The test is called a BAER (Brainstem Auditory Evoked Response) test, and you should test all of the puppies in the litter, not just the sleepy one, because some of the pups may be deaf in one ear only, and you wouldn't be able to discover that except through a test. If so, they will make perfectly okay pets, but it's only right that you disclose this to their future owners and place them so as to ensure that they will not be bred. (Also, you would not want to breed the parents again.) If you do test them all, I would be interested to hear how the results match up with their coat and eye color. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWBC Posted July 1, 2003 Report Share Posted July 1, 2003 Hello, While I am sure you can BAER test at five weeks, that is a little young from what I was told last week. We took 3 BCs for BAER testing, a red merle(8months), a black tri with a blue eye(3yrs), and a black tri split face(6yrs). We were discussing the test with the neurologist that was doing it and talked about a litter that had been tested 2 yrs ago(at a different place, by a different Dr). The litter was tested at 6 wks and one of the pups tested unilaterally deaf,she was the darkest pup in the litter, which included a blue eyed pup, it was very interesting that that particular pup tested that way as she was the last to open her eyes and a little behind the rest of the pups. The specialist we talked to last week said that the pup may have been immature and that it could very well be normal hearing. She said she prefers they be at least 7 weeks. I am glad that people are BAER testing more and it is an interesting topic. WWBC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brookcove Posted July 1, 2003 Report Share Posted July 1, 2003 One my pup's littermates has a blue eye. He is not deaf - except selectively! I'll have Jen BAER tested at some point, as well as my other dog. I'm interested to see how it's done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedy1 Posted July 1, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2003 Thanks for the replies. We'll definately have the pup Baer tested. By the way, the pup with two blue eyes is very active and "spunky" and is not the "suspected deaf" pup. Our "suspected" deaf pup does however have one blue eye and one brown eye, and as I mentioned before is white from stomach to head. She's the "oddball" of the litter because the rest of the pups have the "typical" black & white markings. Neither parent is merled, both are black & white. There are no future plans to breed these dogs again because Tass will be spayed once the pups are weaned. If this pup is deaf, we're considering keeping her, and naturally will spay her also. We've already started to so some reseach on living/dealing with a deaf dog and realize this will be a new challenge. We spend A LOT of time with our dogs and think we're up to the challenge. But any advise from the board would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again! Debbie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgt Posted July 1, 2003 Report Share Posted July 1, 2003 Everything I've been told (by people who tend to be reliable in these matters) jibes with Eileen's advice. Two of my Border Collies (mother and pup) have white heads, ears and necks, down to about their front shoulders or so. They have a little faint spotting on the ears. The son has a blue eye. Neither are deaf. (However, the pup with the blue eye is starting to manifest some hearing loss around sheep - thankfully.) I have an "old timer" friend who is well-versed in every sheepdog old wives tail. For example: "Getting a new dog? Better check the color of the mouth." "Dog has a white head? Can't possibly have any power." "White head and blue eye? Has he gone deaf yet?" You get the picture. charlie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike's Bitch Posted July 1, 2003 Report Share Posted July 1, 2003 What's the one about the colour of the mouth? I ask because Spike's is all mottled - very fetching when he yawns. Liz 'n' Spike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSnappy Posted July 1, 2003 Report Share Posted July 1, 2003 Originally posted by Spike's Bitch:What's the one about the colour of the mouth? I ask because Spike's is all mottled - very fetching when he yawns. Liz 'n' Spike The old wives tale is that a dog isn't a good worker unless the roof of his mouth is black or black spotted. I find it particularly funny, because I have red dogs and therefore, the roofs of their mouth CAN'T be black ... and yet Red Dog is a pretty good little sheepdog. Or more correctly, he would be if he had a decent handler and if someone had bothered taking him to sheep before he was 5 years old. RDM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diane allen Posted July 2, 2003 Report Share Posted July 2, 2003 Speedy1, just in case you hadn't found it yet....the web site www.geocities.com/black_dog_farm has tons of health-related articles/links, including several on deaf dogs. diane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness_bc Posted July 4, 2003 Report Share Posted July 4, 2003 Hi, I didn't think that two blue eyes was extremely rare. My border collie from show lines here in Australia has a brother with two blue eyes and he is perfectly normal. He did need to be rescreened at 12 months for Collie Eye but was fine - don't know whether there is a correlation or not. The rest of the litter (7) were also clear at 8 weeks. Sally Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eileen Stein Posted July 4, 2003 Report Share Posted July 4, 2003 There's no correlation between eye color and Collie Eye Anomaly. Speedy1, there's a helpful website on raising deaf dogs at http://www.deafdogs.org/ . Also, the Black Dog Farm website that Diane mentioned is an incredible wealth of information about border collies generally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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