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Hi Everyone

Our puppies are growing and they are now 4 months old (will be 5 months toward the end of November.)  We have two fenced-in small yards for them to play in, both within our two acres of fenced-in land.  So my husband and I are at a disagreement.  He feels that they should be allowed on the two acres to run free (no leashes).  I feel they are still too young.  We try to keep it clean, but it's hard to control deer and rabbit poop on two acres.  I feel if they are free at this age, it will be almost impossible to keep things out of their mouths (sticks, stones, poop, unknown weeds, unknown objects and grass.)  Yes, grass.  My boy has a habit of ripping grass up from the roots and eating it (dirt and all).  I don't feel that they can be managed well at this age on such a large piece of ground.  They have been training and learning since we got them at nine weeks and both are currently in a puppy obedience class -- but they are still young. I am inclined to wait until 5 or 6 months and then see how much more they have matured.   He thinks I am being ridiculous and too cautious.  So I would LOVE to hear opinions on what experienced people think as to when it is ok to give them a wider berth of exploration. 

Thank you in advance. 

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Well,  I wouldn't count on them becoming more manageable at 5 or 6 months.  That's sort of like expecting your adorable 8 year old child to become more manageable as a teenager.   It's at least as likely that they will become less manageable - faster, stronger, more independent,  more inclined to test boundaries, and hormone-poisoned . 

Over the years I've taken my dogs on unleashed walks on my mostly fenced 10 acres starting when they are  a couple months old.  The walks are pretty short at first, and I'm keeping a good eye on them, and as they get older they drag a long line until they learn that "come" is a command, not a suggestion.  But yeah, they get to run around, and stop and sniff, and roll in the dirt, and yes, occasionally snack on some deer poop starting at a young age.  I throw a nice soft toy or, better yet, a precious precious plastic jug for them to fetch to remove the temptation of carrying small potentially pokey sticks around.  Yes, there are risks. They could step in a hole.  They could roll in something more odiferus than dirt. Although I keep a good eye out and only take them for these walks in broad daylight, I suppose they could encounter a porcupine, or skunk.  Coyotes have been known to jump or dig under the fence.   I dunno.  One person's "being cautious" is another person's "helicopter parent", but whatever level of risk you are willing to tolerate, those risks aren't going to go away when your pups hit their adolescent years.

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Just my opinion - but that is what you asked for - I probably wouldn't let a pup at that age run free on 2 acres. The main reason being that I would very likely still be working hard on a solid recall cue, and there isn't any way to enforce it if you let the dog free  in a fairly large space like that.  If I had already a solid recall, I would allow it, but would curtail that activity if the recall started getting mushy.

I personally would not worry about poop, because a dog either will or will not eat/roll in poop, and that applies to adult dogs as well; you can't really enforce that the dog's whole life. At 5 or 6 or 8 months old your pup may be more reliable, or may be less so. A lot depends on training and how consistent you are with that, but it is also something that differs among dogs. Aome are pretty reliable at a young age, others take two years to grow up, so I wouldn't base your decisions on his chronological age. 

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You mentioned that you have more than one pup - one downside of giving them too much free time together is that they will bond to each other, and not to you.  Depending on your ultimate goals for them as adult dogs, this may not be an issue, but one to consider if you are contemplating giving them a lot of free time, unsupervised by humans.  I personally like to have more face time with my dogs - they get their own play time in our securely fenced ~ 1 acre sideyard, but it's limited to about four short sessions per day.

How about some puppy pictures??

Amy

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I agree with Sue. Letting young dogs run free with each other as their primary companion is the opposite of building a bond with each dog. If you want 2 dogs who are more interested in hanging with each other than in being trained by or playing with you, letting them run around a huge yard by themselves is the right way to do it. If you want them to bond to you and/or your husband and look to you for fun, guidance and safety, then they need to spend that time mostly with the humans.

 

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PS - My Shoshone was isolated with a littermate for a year of her life, rarely seeing the guy who had them. She remained a quirky dog, frequently difficult in that she never quite bonded with me or my then husband the way our other dogs did. She was smart as a whip and learned very quickly, but didn't care for humans at all.

Ruth & Gibbs

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Thank you for all of your comments.  We have walked them around the property on leash ever since we brought them home.  My plan to introduce them to the big yard was to  take them outside to where we normally sit and put them on a long line.  That is what we have done before when we brought a new dog home.  What I never thought of (and I don't know why!!) was WALKING them around the yard on a dropped long line!  Thank you for that suggestion!  I think it will be a great next step.  None of our dogs are ever out on the property without someone being there with them.  When they go out, usually all the dogs are out there.  I agree that getting that recall down is imperative to them experiencing the whole yard on their own. I also liked the comment that we should not narrow it down to a particular age, but to each dog's personality and maturity.  Our dogs (and our kids' dogs) all love to run the yard since it is so big and fenced, and my husband is just eager to have these guys do it, too. 
 
We have raised litter mates before, although it was a long time ago and we are much older...so it is a tad bit more exhausting now  LOL.  They are separated during periods of the day and sometimes in the evenings.  They are both in separate obedience classes on separate nights.  They are trained separately at home. I know the pitfalls, so I'm constantly watching and not too concerned.
 
Because someone asked, I am attaching a picture of Parker and Piper -- though it's awfully hard to get them to sit still long enough for a good photo op! 
 
I just want to thank Eileen and all of you for doing these Boards.  I found you back in 2008 when I got my first BC through a rescue.  Although I have 40+ years in dog training, obedience, showing, and a very small smidgen of breeding, I had German Shepherd Dogs and I really wanted to do right by this breed.  I am so grateful to have found this wonderful site, and the knowledge I have found here has been invaluable.  I continued to use this site through my second BC, and now again with these two puppies. Using the search engine is a really great reference tool when questions occur.  I was around during the Kelso saga, and that has been a treasure for people who are adopting a rescue. You all really provide a wonderful service to all dog owners, and especially to Border Collie owners....and I thank you all from the bottom of my heart.   

Parker and Piper.jpg

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Oh, it's too bad you have two such puppies.....but I will take one or both of them off your hands if you like.:D:wub:

They are so cute. Thanks for posting the photo.

I am also hugely grateful for this forum, and don't know what I'd do without it at this point. I am glad you enjoyed Kelso's story. I am going for a hike with Kelso and his person the first week of December, and will be sure to post photos. :)

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