Timgb2 Posted August 2, 2019 Report Share Posted August 2, 2019 Hi again Just thinking ahead a bit, our new border collie pup will have just one day a week where both myself and my partner will be out 8-4, from 14 weeks onwards, but my parents will pop round atleast twice through the day for excercise etc, our puppy is not particularly keen on her crate, she does sleep in it at night with minimal protest but confined in it in the daytime and she whines constantly, I don't like leaving her in it anyway for very long, so is it reasonable to expect to be able to allow her the run of our kitchen and dining room at such a young age uwithout destroying the place? She does like chewing and has shown interest in skirting boards, chair legs etc but we've always been on hand to redirect her. She's fairly well toilet trained already. On the positive side when we have not been around for short periods so far she just seems to sleep. I did think about an X-pen, I've used one at work with her for a couple of days when we 1st got her and she was OK in there, but as we've not used such a thing at home will that confuse her? Sorry looooong post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flora & Molly Posted August 2, 2019 Report Share Posted August 2, 2019 If possible I would not give a young pup the kitchen and dining room, but choose one of the rooms to keep her in. I would like my pup to have some space to stretch her legs, but not too much to get up to no good An X-pen is a good idea if you're afraid she might chew on furniture and the like. Did you leave her alone in there at your work? Or were you in the same room with her? If she is used to being alone in there with you out of sight I don't see a problem when you use it at home. Even if you didn't it might not be a problem, but if you could practice leaving her in that set up at home and work up to longer periods that would help your pup. Practice makes perfect Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timgb2 Posted August 2, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2019 Yes she was left in the pen in one room of four large interconnected rooms at my workplace on her own, if I was in the furthest away room she definitely couldn't see me or hear me, and I did do this for up to around an hour at a time. I think it was actually probably a helpful experience for us both. I took time out of work to do training and exercise with her, much like my parents will when they pop round at home, which gives me confidence to possibly use this system at home, especially after your comments Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D'Elle Posted August 3, 2019 Report Share Posted August 3, 2019 My policy is to give the pup or new dog as much freedom as I can while making it impossible for him or her to damage anything. How I do that differs depending on where I am and the circumstances. Sometimes that means a pen in the house, sometimes a crate, sometimes shut into a puppy-proofed kitchen. It is a lot easier to prevent behavior you don't want in a puppy than to try to train established chewing behavior out once it is started. Generally an X-pen is the easiest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timgb2 Posted August 3, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2019 2 hours ago, D'Elle said: My policy is to give the pup or new dog as much freedom as I can while making it impossible for him or her to damage anything. How I do that differs depending on where I am and the circumstances. Sometimes that means a pen in the house, sometimes a crate, sometimes shut into a puppy-proofed kitchen. It is a lot easier to prevent behavior you don't want in a puppy than to try to train established chewing behavior out once it is started. Generally an X-pen is the easiest. Does that stand the same if its us she is also chewing? She quite likes nipping our ankles, we are removing ourselves or her from the situation when it happens but I'm still thinking she generally has too much free reign all the time, allowing her to get under our feet and she can't resist the urge to chase and nip our ankles, socks, toes etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D'Elle Posted August 5, 2019 Report Share Posted August 5, 2019 On 8/3/2019 at 9:45 AM, Timgb2 said: Does that stand the same if its us she is also chewing? She quite likes nipping our ankles, we are removing ourselves or her from the situation when it happens but I'm still thinking she generally has too much free reign all the time, allowing her to get under our feet and she can't resist the urge to chase and nip our ankles, socks, toes etc. You have answered your own question. If you feel she has too much free reign, then she most likely does. If she nips an ankle you need to respond immediately. Don't wait until she has nipped twice. The very first time, say "ow!" or "ah!", or make some other sound indicating it hurt (I like to try to make a dog yelp-in-pain sound as best I can), and then take her gently but firmly to her crate for a time out. This will have to be repeated a hundred times or more so do not get discouraged! Be 100% consistent with this and let it take however long it takes to sink in that Every. Single. Time. she nips she will go into the crate for 5 to 10 minutes and all the fun stops for her. It could take a couple of weeks, could take month. Could take six months. Just keep doing it. Every member of your household must do the same. Remember, it is vitally important that this time out in the crate is not viewed as punishment. Do not have a punishing attitude. Do not get angry or frustrated. These things will only make it worse, guaranteed. Think of it as if it were a force of nature, over which you have no control. It's like gravity: if you jump from a height you will fall to the ground. If you nip at ankles you will go into your crate for a time out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timgb2 Posted August 6, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2019 Thanks for the info, if I put her in the crate should I still be in view or dissappear whilst she's in there? What do I do if she whines whilst in there? I'm struggling with inappropriate play in general, she gets too excited, seemingly whether I play with her or not, it always goes too far in the end, she either get over excited playing with me or bored if I don't and over excited again, jumping up, general biting, ignoring commands, she just wants to play but it's not how we want to play with her, currently we have been just leaving her in the kitchen/dining room when she gets like that, and she zooms around for a while, sometimes chews something she shouldn't, we go through the puppy gate! I may try the crate instead! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentleLake Posted August 6, 2019 Report Share Posted August 6, 2019 Prevention is really the best method for avoiding unwanted behaviors. It's true for house training, chewing and many other things. If you don't want them to do a particular thing then do as much as possible to prevent its happening in the first place or interrupt it and prevent its continuing at the earliest second possible. She needs to learn to be chill in her crate whether or not you're there, so I'd just pop her in her crate and go about whatever I had to do, whether it's in her her visual range or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timgb2 Posted August 7, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2019 Thanks for all your help and advice from all of you it's really helped, she seems to be getting better, the crate as a time out seems more effective, even for very short periods, we have also been going to puppy classes and the trainer mentioned using an "enough" command (with a slicing hand gesture) to stop play when we are done so it doesn't escalate into unwanted types of play when we walk away, she said it was especially useful with collies as they never want to stop play. I also think crating her more in the day has forced her to relax sometimes which is good, she definitely had too much of the "run" of the place before, quite literally! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timgb2 Posted August 7, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2019 Also is there any chance that playing with her in any amount is a bad idea? I'm playing with her because I figured she needs the stimulation and excercise, especially as I can't take her on walks yet because of her vaccinations. But is that just raising the expectation of play all the time? So if we paid her affectionate attention still, but without play with toys etc, might that be better? She sometimes entertains herself with her toys which is good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urge to herd Posted August 7, 2019 Report Share Posted August 7, 2019 Playing with your dog is great! Sometimes I don't know who enjoys it more, me or the dog. Play is training, for the dog AND the human. Play teaches a young dog that humans are NOT chew toys, that there are rules and limits in life, and that the human in their lives is to be trusted and heeded. Play like fetch builds muscle and endurance and can contribute to good socialization. Limiting play is the human's responsibility is what you need to remember. I foolishly let my first bc, Samantha, run her feet to hamburger fetching a ball on hard packed earth. She limped for several days, and I still wince when I think of it. So, you decide when play starts, you decide when play finishes. Make sure your dog is not exhausting himself, and that you decide what to play and for how long. Playing with a healthy, friendly dog is one of life's great joys. Have a great time! Ruth & Gibbs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D'Elle Posted August 7, 2019 Report Share Posted August 7, 2019 With a puppy who tends to get over-excited and run rampant, I always prefer to play in a more quiet manner. Any play you do with her that ramps her up is counter-productive. Either find ways to play with her that are more quiet, or else try training her to fetch or tug, then do short sessions of that where you are in control of the toy, and when play is over it's over. Very distinct line between playtime and down time. Also remember that intellectual stimulation is every bit as important as play or physical exercise. Take two minutes a few different time in the day to train her to do something, using lots of praise and treats. Then, as with the play, it is time to chill out. This gives her practice at using an "off switch". Also, you can take her on walks. The no-outside-contact thing before all the vaccinations are done is highly overstated. I would not take a pup who has not had full vaccinations to a dog day care, dog park, or let the pup on the floor at the vet office or other place where you know there have been many dogs. But I wouldn't hesitate to walk her just down the street, and into places such as Home Depot, where dogs are welcome. Of course, work on leash walking in your own yard first so that you can train her manners on the leash before she has all the distractions of new places. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentleLake Posted August 7, 2019 Report Share Posted August 7, 2019 6 hours ago, Timgb2 said: ...I'm playing with her because I figured she needs the stimulation and excercise, especially as I can't take her on walks yet because of her vaccinations.... IMO, and in the opinions of most behaviorists and many veterinarians, limiting proper socialization during the crucial period between 8 and 16 weeks is far more dangerous to the future well being of a puppy than the small risk of a puppy's contracting disease, especially if the pup's gotten some puppy shots. https://www.whole-dog-journal.com/uncategorized/plan-ahead-to-socialize-your-puppy-early/ https://www.whole-dog-journal.com/puppies/pre_puppy_prep/the-guide-dogs-of-americas-puppy-socialization-schedule/ https://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2014/01/06/puppy-socialization-class.aspx https://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2010/01/20/critical-importance-of-socializing-your-puppy.aspx https://peterdobias.com/blogs/blog/11017269-happy-dogs-get-rarely-ill?_pos=6&_sid=fbd19ca62&_ss=r https://moderndogmagazine.com/articles/10-socialization-training-games-you-should-play-your-puppy/119978?fbclid=IwAR2B_rFAH9Vdr2rVdMeT96b36wwDjrChOF7m_fbBwyzMcTQvk3q2_kc8dw (info about risk of not socializing at the end of the article) https://moderndogmagazine.com/blogs/modern-pets/socialize-your-puppy-bucket-list-top-trainer And here's one about stopping unwanted behavior: https://www.whole-dog-journal.com/training/five-steps-to-stopping-unwanted-behavior/?MailingID=80&utm_source=ActiveCampaign&utm_medium=email&utm_content=Five+Steps+to+Stopping+Unwanted+Behavior&utm_campaign=TOTW20190705-DecodingYourDog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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