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Saydrin44

What color?

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I have a 4 month old BC. When I got her from the breeder she was listed as "lilac Merle" but the vet says she is a Chocolate Merle. She also has tan spots around her eyes and on her legs which look like she could be tri-colored. Her back is a silver shell with chocolate and red spots but her face has more tan and chocolate marking. It's hard to see the tan on her legs but I attached a few pictures of her coat. What is she considered??

Anzley 15 weeks 4.jpg

anzley 14 weeks 8.jpg

Anzley 16 Weeks 5.jpg

Anzley 12 weeks 4.jpg

Anzley 12 weeks 5.jpg

Anzley 17 weeks 5.jpg

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This is what a lilac merle looks like:

lilac-collie-960x540.jpg.7e8027dc614d58cce361529f90fd88c3.jpg

Yours looks like a tri-colour blue merle. Here's my last TCBM (Pip):

DSC01837.thumb.JPG.c93dc2f66d69a0409d5142b9e073a36c.JPG

The colours can take a little while to come out on a blue merle. Here he is as a pup:

DSC01153.thumb.JPG.904768e025a1f02682dc332155e4c39d.JPG

DSC00990_Pip_in_table_for_Roger.thumb.jpg.cb5c6ff6b96a1481c5b4bbcde34a71a4.jpg

 

Pip is sadly no longer with us, but I reckon that's what you've got there.

 

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Welcome to the Boards.

The pup in the OP looks to me to be a red merle -- or what in Australia is called a chocolate merle.

If the pup's nose leather is brown, then it's a red dog. A blue merle would have a black nose.

It's unclear from the photo in the second post if that's a lilac merle or just a solid color lilac dog. I can't see any darker spotting that would indicate it's a merle. It's more obvious in this photo I took from an internet search of "lilac merle border collie."

image.png.9dfcb1afbd4c24a06ab67a76c3220b30.png

Any merle can be a tri-color. If there are bits of tan in certain locations, such as under the tail, eyebrows, cheeks and on the legs where the white and colored areas meet. The tan will develop further as the pup grows. Often at birth the only visible trace of tan is underneath the tail. From the photos your pup is a tri.

Red Merle is correct that the dark areas of base color, whether it be black or red, color often intensify as the pup gets older too. I assume that would be the case for blue (i.e. slate merle) and lilac as well.

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This is what my boy Bailey looked like as a puppy.

IMG_20140723_075530.thumb.jpg.44fd413cdaf62ce6350129220d581a29.jpg

 

This is what he looks like now.

17621853_10212115879281778_7776118701711338877_o.thumb.jpg.f6fbd520c037db1844992f37a04c7fea.jpg

He has really gotten a lot darker as he grew up.  He was also in his vaccination paperwork as a puppy as a lilac merle but is a red merle.

I would say you have a red tri merle there.  Enjoy your gorgeous new puppy!

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13 hours ago, Red Merle said:

This is what a lilac merle looks like:

lilac-collie-960x540.jpg.7e8027dc614d58cce361529f90fd88c3.jpg

Yours looks like a tri-colour blue merle. Here's my last TCBM (Pip):

DSC01837.thumb.JPG.c93dc2f66d69a0409d5142b9e073a36c.JPG

The colours can take a little while to come out on a blue merle. Here he is as a pup:

DSC01153.thumb.JPG.904768e025a1f02682dc332155e4c39d.JPG

DSC00990_Pip_in_table_for_Roger.thumb.jpg.cb5c6ff6b96a1481c5b4bbcde34a71a4.jpg

 

Pip is sadly no longer with us, but I reckon that's what you've got there.

 

Beautiful pup. I'm sorry for your loss. Thank you for your reply! My pup is a little lighter than she was when I first got her, but her spots are getting darker.

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9 hours ago, Lawgirl said:

This is what my boy Bailey looked like as a puppy.

IMG_20140723_075530.thumb.jpg.44fd413cdaf62ce6350129220d581a29.jpg

 

This is what he looks like now.

17621853_10212115879281778_7776118701711338877_o.thumb.jpg.f6fbd520c037db1844992f37a04c7fea.jpg

He has really gotten a lot darker as he grew up.  He was also in his vaccination paperwork as a puppy as a lilac merle but is a red merle.

I would say you have a red tri merle there.  Enjoy your gorgeous new puppy!

WOW! Gorgeous pup!! He did get a lot darker. So far just her spots are darker but her coat is getting lighter. She had more of a chocolate tone her her coat but is more silvery now. I LOVE your pups tails. So beautiful!

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12 hours ago, GentleLake said:

Welcome to the Boards.

The pup in the OP looks to me to be a red merle -- or what in Australia is called a chocolate merle.

If the pup's nose leather is brown, then it's a red dog. A blue merle would have a black nose.

It's unclear from the photo in the second post if that's a lilac merle or just a solid color lilac dog. I can't see any darker spotting that would indicate it's a merle. It's more obvious in this photo I took from an internet search of "lilac merle border collie."

image.png.9dfcb1afbd4c24a06ab67a76c3220b30.png

Any merle can be a tri-color. If there are bits of tan in certain locations, such as under the tail, eyebrows, cheeks and on the legs where the white and colored areas meet. The tan will develop further as the pup grows. Often at birth the only visible trace of tan is underneath the tail. From the photos your pup is a tri.

Red Merle is correct that the dark areas of base color, whether it be black or red, color often intensify as the pup gets older too. I assume that would be the case for blue (i.e. slate merle) and lilac as well.

Her nose is brown with a little pink mark on it.

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3 hours ago, Saydrin44 said:

Her nose is brown with a little pink mark on it.

Whose nose?

If the nose leather's brown, then it's a red dog. I assume, though am not positive, a lilac's nose would be a lighter shade of brown.

Any pink mark on the nose is just an area where the pigment hasn't developed.

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5 hours ago, Saydrin44 said:

Beautiful pup. I'm sorry for your loss. Thank you for your reply! My pup is a little lighter than she was when I first got her, but her spots are getting darker.

Thank you, though it was a good few years ago. Such a shame to lose him so very young.

It's and interesting debate as to whether she's going to be blue or red. I've got a fair amount of experience of red and she's a bit red to be a blue and a bit blue to be a red! :rolleyes:

It could really just be down to the lighting on the day and the colour profiling on all of the users' monitors. Please post more as she grows :D

 

PS: Not a very helpful picture in this case, but a fun one!

(Arghh... not sure how to fix that!)

2016-09-04_18_58_09.jpg

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6 minutes ago, Red Merle said:

It's and interesting debate as to whether she's going to be blue or red.

A dog with black nose leather is never a red or turn red, and a dog with brown nose leather is never black or can turn black. Pretty straightforward and no debate about it AFAIK.

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10 minutes ago, Red Merle said:

 

Thank you, though it was a good few years ago. Such a shame to lose him so very young.

It's and interesting debate as to whether she's going to be blue or red. I've got a fair amount of experience of red and she's a bit red to be a blue and a bit blue to be a red! :rolleyes:

It could really just be down to the lighting on the day and the colour profiling on all of the users' monitors. Please post more as she grows :D

 

PS: Not a very helpful picture in this case, but a fun one!

(Arghh... not sure how to fix that!)

2016-09-04_18_58_09.jpg

Wow, stunning pup!! I will send updated pics as she changes. I attached the most recent pic from a couple weeks ago.

65374986_10219381258540155_4477116012914802688_n.jpg

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46 minutes ago, GentleLake said:

A dog with black nose leather is never a red or turn red, and a dog with brown nose leather is never black or can turn black. Pretty straightforward and no debate about it AFAIK.

So she would either be a Chocolate/Red or Lilac? Is she a tri-color?

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You keep referring to "she" without specifying which dog you're talking about, @Saydrin44. Can't answer your queries unless you identify which of the pictures -- your dog, one of the others? -- you're talking about.

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Saydrin44, your pup is definitely going to be a red tri merle.  Her nose leather is brown, with the pink non-pigmented section, so she cannot be a blue merle.  Her base coat colour is brown.

If she was a lilac merle, she would have silver and lilac patches, but no dark brown/chocolate coloured patches, because the lilac dilution gene would dilute all the brown colour from her coat.  She is tri-colour because of the tan patches, especially the tan eyebrows.

Here is a picture of Bailey's nose, which is similar to your puppy's nose.

1558502298572.thumb.JPEG.fce80c515aba61a88f1c076bcd026861.JPEG

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10 hours ago, Lawgirl said:

Saydrin44, your pup is definitely going to be a red tri merle.  Her nose leather is brown, with the pink non-pigmented section, so she cannot be a blue merle.  Her base coat colour is brown.

If she was a lilac merle, she would have silver and lilac patches, but no dark brown/chocolate coloured patches, because the lilac dilution gene would dilute all the brown colour from her coat.  She is tri-colour because of the tan patches, especially the tan eyebrows.

Here is a picture of Bailey's nose, which is similar to your puppy's nose.

1558502298572.thumb.JPEG.fce80c515aba61a88f1c076bcd026861.JPEG

Thank you so much!! This helps me a lot. I was thinking she was a tri-chocolate/red merle but her back is a silver so that was throwing me off but the brown patches makes sense. Thank you for your response!

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