diabetes

[Guest Riley's mom]

Is anyone here familiar with diabetes in BCs (or even just dogs, for that matter)? My Riley just cannot hold his water. I visited my grandparents this weekend and being the forgetful folk they are, they kept leaving the toilet seat up, which means Riley kept drinking water. I believe he urinated more than 20 times in a span of 3 hours (7 times inside). Besides excessive urination, are there other signs?

 

He's getting neutered on Tuesday, so I'm havin the pre-anesthetic blood work done prior to that which includes diabetes, but I'm just curious.

 

Also out of curiosity, what kind of treatment is needed for a diabetic dog?

 

Thanks,

Betsy

[cybercollie]

One of my former coworkers had a diabetic dog. She gave him daily insulin shots and fed him a special diet. He also went to the vet's office on a regular basis to get his insulin levels checked.

 

Unfortunately, I have no idea if dogs can be treated with only diet and exercise like some humans with type 2 diabetes.

 

Please talk to your vet as soon as possible. Frequent urination can be the sign of infection or serious urinary tract problems. This problem needs to be addressed before he undergoes surgery.

[cybercollie]

One of my former coworkers had a diabetic dog. She gave him daily insulin shots and fed him a special diet. He also went to the vet's office on a regular basis to get his insulin levels checked.

 

Unfortunately, I have no idea if dogs can be treated with only diet and exercise like some humans with type 2 diabetes.

 

Please talk to your vet as soon as possible. Frequent urination can be the sign of infection or serious urinary tract problems. This problem needs to be addressed before he undergoes surgery.

[Guest Riley's mom]

If the pre-anesthetic blood work shows diabetes, the vet said he won't continue with the neutering. But I don't think he has diabetes, anyway. He has gotten so much better in the last week - only two accidents, and they were both at my mom's house, so somewhat explainable.

 

I also bought some Clinitest (urinalysis strips to measure glucose levels in the urine) and it was completely negative - no glucose at all. We will find out for sure tomorrow morning, but I think we're in the clear.

 

Thanks!

Betsy

[HKM's Mom]

There are two kinds of diabetes. With one the islet cells don't put out insulin, the other, the kidneys don't concentrate the urine so the dogs needs tons of water to stay hydrated. The second type is called diabetes insipidus. There can be other reasons for DI, but you should se oter problems with the dog as well.

Hopefully, he was just full of toilet water.

[dot me not]

I once saw a dog with DI that was so desperate for H2O that he would drink his own urine! His owners finally had him euthanized. Being diabetic myself, I have often wondered why dogs/cats can't be given oral meds instead of insulin. Don't know if it's because it won't work or if the research simply hasn't been done. I'd be real curious if anyone has an answer...

Lydia

[Guest Riley's mom]

Well, all his bloodwork turned out fine, he doesn't have the regular kind of diabetes that revolves around insulin. When testing for a UTI, the vet did notice that his urine was diluted more than normal, and they want to do a water-deprivation test with him after he fully recovers from the neuter. If he did have DI, what other signs would he be showing? I am of the opinion that I have trained him to be this way (by limiting his water). When he was younger we could put down a full dish of water and he wouldn't drink the whole thing, but has he kept urinating inside, we started limiting his water, and now it's like a treat to him.

 

Last night he had quite a bit of water and NO urinating inside! I think he's finally gotten the idea of "Potty Outside!" I have also noticed that he may go outside and attempt to potty a lot (or think he is) but hardly anything comes out. Of course, he potties on command, so that's why he squats (he doesn't lift his leg yet).

 

Unrelated note, he also thought he would see what primer (we're painting cabinets) tasted like. I was mortified, gave him a bunch of water right away and called poison control. That place is a God-send. I told them what he licked and swallowed, told them the brand name. They looked it up on the computer and it and could see exactly what was in the primer and they had info about what was toxic amounts for adults, children and dogs (by weight within each category!) According to that, he could have had up to 5 tablespoons before it got toxic. He only had probably 1/2 teaspoon, so we were in the clear, but it was fantastic information! Thought I would share in case anyone else has as curious of a dog as I do.

[sea4th]

This is the great thing about a forum like this--it provides an opportunity to learn from the experiences of others.

 

To make a long story short, my oldest BC, Pete, who just turned 13, was diagnosed a year and a half ago with Fanconi's syndrome. He also had frequent urination. Had we just tested the urine glucose, he would have been diagnosed with diabetes and since Fanconi's is almost unheard of in BC's, (a couple of other breeds are known for it), it may have stopped there, but fortunately, I deal with two knowledgable vets. We did a complete blood work up and urinalysis. Blood work for glucose was normal, urine glucose 1,000+. This are the classical symptoms of Fanconi's Syndrome (normal blood glucose, extremely high urine glucose) and since it was a BC in question, these vets were surprised. The constant dumping of sugar into the urinary tract caused frequent UTI's and it was beginning to affect his kidneys. I contacted a vet from a university vet school who has studied Fanconi's (thanks to a couple of breed clubs) & overnighted a urine sample to them & the results came back "mildly Fanconi's" which meant that Pete certainly wouldn't die from Fanconi's, but he certainly did have it. How did he get it? In Basenjis & Norwegian elkhounds (a couple of other breeds as well), it's genetic, but BC's are not known for it. Fanconi's syndrome, however, can also be congenital or acquired. How acquired---through exposure to heavy metals. I wracked my brains--what heavy metals would Pete have been exposed to. A few months later someone suggested the possiblity that this exposure could have come from routine vaccinations. I e-mailed the university vet back, asking re: treatment, can it be treated with diet or what. The vet responded that a study had been done with some BC's that would suggest that BC's might tend to have B-12 deficiencies, so suggested I get his B-12 levels checked. Pete, in the meantime was wasting away. I was carrying this dog into the vet's office. Based on the B-12 deficiency suggestion, I immediately took him off the prescription diet he was on and put him on a raw diet, "mOrigins" (rich in B-vitamins). Two months later he was working livestock again (granted not like in his younger days, but then again 2 months before, he couldn't walk). 10 months later we again had a urinalysis and blood work done on him and everything was in normal ranges. This dog will never go off the raw diet.

 

What all this says, is sometimes it pays to look beyond the obvious, because there is a whole lot more we don't know than we do know.

 

Just a P.S. to this story--that was the first time I had ever heard of Fanconi's syndrome. The second time was to be a few hours later on 20/20, applying to humans.

 

My dogs & life in general, continues to be a learning trip.

 

P.S.--I had a 4 month old pup who got into a can of green paint on, of all days, St. Patrick's Day, and instead of going to the parade, we were at the emergency clinic.

 

Vicki