nancy Posted November 26, 2002 Report Share Posted November 26, 2002 Fergie will need more Frontline next month. Yeah, it's winter. But we get enough warm enough days here in NC that the beasties do attack. I have been paying almost $11 an application (45-88 lbs, regular version) from the vet. So I have tried looking online. Geesh! What a bunch to choose from. How can I know whom to trust? Something called fleadrops.com has it as low as $7.50, with free shipping. Are they OK? We have had fantastic results over the 6-1/2 years we've had Ferg. I'm not worried about using a credit card online. I do it occassionally - with one specific credit card. I jsut want to know if I'll actually get something, preferably what i've ordered, and that it is the real thing. So, of course, I go to the experts - you. Nancy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted November 26, 2002 Report Share Posted November 26, 2002 Hi nancy, I just ordered Advantage for the cats from www.1frontlineflea.com. Their prices are excellent (for example, my vet wants $86 for an 8-pack, and it was $39.90 at this site). I have used them before without a problem. They carry both Frontline and Advantage. For the dogs I buy the largest size available (it's cheaper per dose that way) and cut the vial open and use a syringe to apply the right amount to each dog. That might not work as well in a single-dog household because I don't know if the product would last once the tube has been opened (I use the whole vial each time). Julie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PrairieFire Posted November 26, 2002 Report Share Posted November 26, 2002 Hey Guys - Can you buy that stuff without a prescription? I'm guessing the flea stuff maybe, but not heartworm (that's a guess)? ------------------ Bill Gary Kensmuir, Working Stockdog Center River Falls, WI 715.426.9877 www.kensmuir.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted November 26, 2002 Report Share Posted November 26, 2002 Hey Bill, You can get the flea products just about anywhere without a prescription. I doubt you can do the same with the heartworm meds, but then I've never given it a serious search either. Followup: I just went to Petmeds.com and went through the process of trying to order Interceptor. At the very end, they say that the product requires a prescription, and then ask you to fill in your vet's name, phone number, etc., as well as information on the pet. The site notes that one to two additional days are needed for confirming a prescription, so I guess they call the vet and ask if the pet is indeed on heartworm preventive. I should've paid more attention to the price as it might have been cheaper than from the vet.... J. [This message has been edited by juliepoudrier (edited 11-26-2002).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoloRiver Posted November 26, 2002 Report Share Posted November 26, 2002 You can't get heartworm meds without a prescription because the dog has to have a current negative heartworm test. If you give a dog positive for heartworms this type of medication, you could kill him. I think it's really just a way to protect dogs from the owners we know are out there who might try to cut corners ("Yeah, I know Spot hasn't had his test, but the vet is so expensive and we only skipped two months so I'm sure he doesn't have it"). I've heard that the non-vet Frontline distributors are selling grey-market Frontline that may not be as good quality, but I have no idea if that's true. Last time I bought Frontline was in a pharmacy in France -- should have bought more -- it was OTC and cost less than half what it costs here. -- Melanie, Solo the Red, and Fly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sea4th Posted November 26, 2002 Report Share Posted November 26, 2002 I found out this year that the cheaper stuff gotten through catalogues & online, although it bears the companies name & packaging, is not made in this country and even though it bears the name of the company, the products made outside the country often are not of the same quality as the product (of the same name) made in this country. If something should go wrong with using the foreign-made stuff, the company will not stand behind it's product, even though their name is on it. Currently there are some lawsuits pending against the companies that offer the cheaper version of, for example, Frontline----the catalogues or the on-line distributors. Please don't ask me the legalities or the fine details---I don't know, but I did learn this from my vet, whom I do trust as a knowledgable dog person, at heartworm testing time this past spring. Cost is an important factor for me with 11 dogs, but I opted to get the stuff from the vet at a few dollars more. For me, it's worth it in the long run. Vicki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted November 26, 2002 Report Share Posted November 26, 2002 Melanie, I don't think anyone was advocating gettting heartworm meds without a prescription (for the reasons you mention), just discussing ways to perhaps get it cheaper than you can get it from the vet. I keep my dogs on preventive year round, and the cost does add up. I certainly wouldn't skimp on my dogs, but if I can mail order the same product for less money and the vet okays the order over the phone, then I certainly don't see anything wrong with doing that. Face it, vets do mark up products, sometimes significantly. As for grey market flea products, I'll have to look at the packaging on the stuff I ordered. I sometimes get it from the vet and sometimes order it, and honestly I haven't noticed any difference in effectiveness either way. Perhpas I'll pay closer attention now though. I'd be interested in following the legal issues surrounding the grey market products, if that is indeed what catalogs and online distributors are using. With the $$ that's at stake there, I can't imagine why the Feds wouldn't have gotten involved (like they do with other counterfeit products that come into this country). After all, if the company won't stand by a product with its name on it, then the product must be counterfeit, no? (Don't answwer that!) J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sea4th Posted November 26, 2002 Report Share Posted November 26, 2002 I might add that while looking through a supply catalogue that the groomer I work for gets, one of them was advertising "Interceptor" and other HW preventatives with "Made in this country!" So there must be some validity to what my vet told me. BTW, don't know where my mind is, (probably running into the sunset like the end of a Three Stooges film) but the products my vet & I were discussing were the HW preventatives, not flea preventatives. Sorry about that. However, it does make you wonder about the flea preventatives as well. Vicki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoloRiver Posted November 26, 2002 Report Share Posted November 26, 2002 I would be happy to buy Frontline that wasn't made in this country -- it's by Merial, which is a French company, which is why what I bought this summer was so much cheaper than it is here. I really should have bought more. -- Melanie, Solo the Red, and Fly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eileen Stein Posted November 26, 2002 Report Share Posted November 26, 2002 > Well, I don't know that I'd jump to that conclusion. It may be just that it's very much in the interest of your vet and that supplier that you buy through them, and this story provides an incentive. I get my Frontline from my vet; it says "Made in France" on it. I get my Cosequin on the Internet (because my vet charges double for the same thing, and while I'd go $10 or maybe even $20 more to support him, I won't go $50 more). It doesn't specifically say where it's made(though it bears a Maryland address), but the jar is identical to the one I used to buy from my vet, right down to the "Available only from your veterinarian" on the label. From what I know in general about the grey market, the issue is usually distribution rights rather than quality. The brand name manufacturer has sold exclusive distribution rights in the US to somebody, and the grey market importer is circumventing that. The manufacturer doesn't like it, and the licensed distributor and its middleman customers certainly don't like it, but AFAIK it's not illegal. Naturally the manufacturer won't stand behind the product, but really, how much does that count for anyway? If your dog got fleas or heartworm or arthritis, as a practical matter what recourse would you expect to have? Of course, it might be true that these products are inferior -- I have no direct knowledge one way or the other -- but I don't think I'd accept it as true on the word of a vet who naturally wants people to buy from him at a higher price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PrairieFire Posted November 27, 2002 Report Share Posted November 27, 2002 I love the way we stay on track... Reminds me of the pups I'm raising right now, "Hey! Look over here!", "No wait, how about over here, isn't this cool?", "Look, look, a hole - maybe somethings in it!" I digress... Like Eileen, I like to support my vet - she works hard, is fair in her charges, and doesn't charge me an office call for each and every dog I bring in at one time (something that made me leave the other vet in town)... My vet is a "country vet" who simply doesn't have the high-priced facilities some places do - for the tough stuff, I head to the U of MN - so she NEEDS, for the sake of profit, to bring in the extra cash from selling the meds - so when I am tempted to deal with other methods, I generally speak to her and see if we can't come up with a solution. For the heartworm stuff, try buying Interceptor for 11 dogs and see the dent in your wallet. What my vet allows me to do is to buy my supply monthly, even though she needs to special order the Interceptor (everyone else is on Heartguard, apparently) - so while I may pay "list" price, I don't have to buy a 6 month supply for 11 dogs at one time... I agree there are vets that take advantage of the situation, but there are those that don't - so grey market, black market, what have you, supporting the local economy sometimes has paybacks beyond the immediate impact on your wallet. ------------------ Bill Gary Kensmuir, Working Stockdog Center River Falls, WI 715.426.9877 www.kensmuir.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nancy Posted November 27, 2002 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2002 Bill, I do usually try to support my local businesses. Always have. But there are two things going on here. Our vet business recently changed hands, and I am not crazy about the new vet. She's the one who notified no one (when she had phone numbers and email addresses up the gazoonies) when Ferg had haemoragic gastroenteritis (sp?) while boarding. They know that my daughter would be picking Ferg up. Poor Mari, was terrified about the bloody stools. All they told her was how to call an emergency vet if things didn't improve in about an hour! Aside from that, they are not as open about what they do, won't let me go see the boarding facilities without making an appointment about a week ahead, and won't let me stay with Fergie when they even give the bordatella. Also, we have retired. Try not being retired when you are technical writers in this economy! And all our investments have rather tanked. So we do need to economize. When I find a new vet who I trust and like, I'll probably go back to buying everything there. But for now.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipedream Farm Posted November 27, 2002 Report Share Posted November 27, 2002 There is a much cheaper way to prevent heartworms. http://www.geocities.com/theslsc/hartzvalleyfarms.html ------------------ Mark Billadeau [This message has been edited by Pipedream Farm (edited 11-27-2002).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PrairieFire Posted November 27, 2002 Report Share Posted November 27, 2002 Hey Nancy - No slurs meant on your decisions to go with whatever solution you think works for you...just mentioning that small town economies, if we expect them to stay viable, may need some support that isn't necessarily based on price only... Mark, you might want to check out some of the previous posts on using Ivermec in Border Collies - some of us have first hand knowledge of dogs that have had severe reactions - including one I know of that died (admittedly an unknown dose - licked the sheep drench when it was set down in the barn)...just as a precaution. ------------------ Bill Gary Kensmuir, Working Stockdog Center River Falls, WI 715.426.9877 www.kensmuir.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipedream Farm Posted November 27, 2002 Report Share Posted November 27, 2002 Bill, thanks for the word of caution. Severe reactions can occur with any medication. Now we always watch our dogs closely after they've received meds, because both our puppies had an adverse reaction to one their vaccinations (not their first one). One puppy?s face got puffy and red and the other had a short bout of convulsions. Renee found out later that the brand of vaccine used has had reported severe reactions across many breeds. Now we make sure we use a different brand of vaccine and have had no problems. I believe the puppies reacted to one of the additives in the vaccine formulation. P.S. a 1% Ivermec solution is over 1000x more concentrated than a Heartgard tablet. ------------------ Mark Billadeau [This message has been edited by Pipedream Farm (edited 11-27-2002).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PrairieFire Posted November 27, 2002 Report Share Posted November 27, 2002 Hey Mark - We've had some pretty heated discussions about things like vaccines and stuff on the boards - as you found out, unfortunately but with no terrible effects, vaccines don't exist in a vacuum but have various dilution agents, preservatives, etc. in them that can cause problems even if the vaccine itself is safe... One of the ahba folks up here, and I'm not sure I have the story 100% straight on the details - but the big picture is here - had a problem with mange (we had a BAD infestation with foxes and coyotes a few years back and many farm folks had problems) - and the local vet used ivomec...unfortunately her dogs got extremely sick - the U of MN, I think, managed to save one, but the other died... That's one of the reason's I decided to use Interceptor instead of Heartguard. ------------------ Bill Gary Kensmuir, Working Stockdog Center River Falls, WI 715.426.9877 www.kensmuir.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoloRiver Posted November 27, 2002 Report Share Posted November 27, 2002 Preventive medicine is generally not something I feel like I need to try and economize on. Like Eileen, I'm not willing to go along with really ridiculous mark-ups but frankly (and I live in the city, full of expensive vets) I've never encountered a mark-up quite that bad. Basic retail on Frontline is what, $30-odd for three months for one dog, $10 a month, Interceptor is about the same. After shipping I don't know how much money I'd really be saving buying off the Internet, and plus, like Bill, I like to help out my vet. My vet is great and has always taken care to discuss anything and everything with me, in depth, as well as every possible option to treat any health issue we've run into from conservative to basic to all-out. He has always given me ways to save a few bucks and is excellent and understanding with my one dog (guess who) who thinks vets are the Gestapo. But I digress. Of course, I only have two dogs. For me, the savings aren't enough to take a chance on possibly inferior meds, especially since I live in an area where Lyme disease and heartworm are very real problems that exist year-round. I can skip eating out a few nights and use that money for meds. If I had more dogs, and more expenses than a young single person typically has, I might cut more corners. -- Melanie, Solo the Red, and The Fly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKM's Mom Posted November 27, 2002 Report Share Posted November 27, 2002 While I do not have an opinion on purchasing dog medications online Vs supporting your vet, or buying USA Vs Overseas, I will offer a website where you can but flea, HW, and other animal meds, without a script from the vet (the ones that require it are marked on the site), and a reduced cost, and with a certain amount of purchases the shipping is free. www.pets-megastore.com.au Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katherine Lena Posted December 4, 2002 Report Share Posted December 4, 2002 Believe it or not, I bought Frontline 45-88 on ebay. The person I bought it from now lets me just email him for subsequent orders. I paid $43.25 for a 6pk of the 45-88, including shipping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted December 5, 2002 Report Share Posted December 5, 2002 I talked to my vet about this topic the other day (while spending $200 on two of my dogs for various things). He said he really doesn't object to folks buying flea control products online. What really gets them (the vets), he said, was the people who send to places for heartworm prescriptions and the like and then the mail order place faxes the vet asking for a signature/prescription for that particular pet. If the vet responds that they don't have a "Fluffy" Jones on record or that they haven't seen "Spot" in 3 years and therefore don't sign the Rx, then they get increasingly nastier faxes from these companies over several days. Not only annoying for the vet, but a big time waster as well. As for grey market products, he seemed to think that the biggest issue with products from overseas is inadequate/improper labeling for sale in the U.S. When I asked him about the government cracking down on such companies, he said that one cmpany in particular is fined on a regular basis, but apparently they jsut see it as a cost of doing business. When I told him that I bought the largest size Frontline for my dogs and then just divvied it up among them using a syringe, he agreed that it was a perfectly acceptable thing to do, but said that legally he cannot tell a client to do anything that would be considered extra-lable. Anyway, this is just one vet's opinion. I think it really boils down to the relationship you have with your vet. I have a good one with mine, and he doesn't mind that I buy my flea products online. Then again, I think he knows that I'm not one to mess about with my pets' health, and I don't hesitate to bring my animals to him when they are in need of care, even if it's just that "something's not right with him, but I can't quite pinpoint it" kind of problem. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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