Snapping at unfamiliar dogs on and off lead

[Salty the bordercollie]

Hello I have got some great advice from this forum before so hoping someone might have a suggestion for my girl Salty. She is 18months old, I have had her since 8 weeks. We have had a few issues with her since she was about 5 months old, she had poor impulse control according to the trainer which has her chasing lots of things - joggers, bikes, cars. This thankfully has gotten a LOT better as she doesn’t lunge on lead and can walk next to the road now. We have her on a long line when we are out somewhere where there may be bikes or cars so she does not have the opportunity to chase. She is also far less reactive as she has gotten older to other things that she used to not be able to stand like the vacuum, broom and lawn mower.

all this is great and at home she is a lovely dog, very obedient and gentle natured. At dog school on the weekend she is also very good. However every time we are out walking when we run into another dog she will snap at them. This is on and off lead. But I haven’t had her off lead much at all lately as I’m trying to not let her interact with the other dogs. This is hard sometimes as other dog owners let there dog approach even when I say she doesn’t like unfamiliar dogs and try to move her away. Am I doing the right thing by not letting her interact with the other dogs? I don’t want her to be able to reinforce the snapping behaviour by allowing it to happen. I’m struggling as it’s difficult to walk her without coming across other dogs, when I see them I put her on lead and try to move her away but often the other dogs are off lead and run up to her. Which always ends badly.

Also when having to walk past other dogs on lead on a path Salty will strain the lead trying to get to the other dog but once she meets the dog she goes from looking friendly and interested to snapping very quickly. She doesn’t growl or give many warning signs. I have tried to give her a lead correction and keep walking but she seems to get tunnel vision on the other dog. 

I have introduced her to a couple of friends friendly dogs in backyards where she might feel safer in both cases she was very snappy and snarly and we tried letting them say hello quickly then rewarding when she did not react etc and eventually they would play like they were best friends?! Once she knows the dog she is fine. 

I don’t mind if she doesn’t want to play with every dog I understand she is not going to like them all, but it would be nice if she could just say hello and keep walking without the bad interaction. She tends to go from fine to snappy and crazy in a split second. I have had someone suggest she may be protective of her space and me, but I’m not sure this is the problem. 

any suggestions would be greatly appreciated, thank you bc boards! 

claire and Salty 

 

[CptJack]

This is pretty typical border collie.  They are sharp, they get offended easily, and respond to percieved slights and discomfort in a blink.

MY only advice is don't do on leash greetings and don't bother introducing to dogs she's not going to regularly interact with.  Focus on teaching her to mind her own business and to keep walking, tunnel vision or no. Stick food in front of her face and drag her past if you have to.   

[urge to herd]

B collies have a strong sense of personal space AND just as strong a sense of appropriate behavior. Cpt. Jack's advice is spot on. Keep moving. You could work on teaching her to switch up sides, so that you can move her easily to the side opposite the approaching dog. Keep her focus on you. When other humans say, "Oh, Flossie just wants to say hi," you can respond with anything from 'I'm doing some training right now' to 'My dog doesn't.' 

Ruth & Gibbs

[bzjetsky]

My bc, Eli is exactly like that. But, mine has both sides. He is sometimes extremly sensitive to a certain type of dogs. But, at the same time, he is extremly genourous on other types.

My guess is partly that when he feels insecure (a bit afraid), he barks and lunges toward other dogs, which usually are bigger than him - shephards, labs, etc. (he has been lucky not to be engaged in a big fight). 

At the same time, when he meets some other dogs which Eli wants to play (I know this from Eli bowing position - he lies down as a sign of invitation), he gets also frustrated because I block him out of fear that he might lunge toward the dog. These two eventually intermingle together so that I have no idea of what would be going on whenever we encounter other dogs. 

I know this Eli's positive side because he gets along with cats and other small dogs in a closed, secure environment. When I ask my sister to take care of Eli (because I have to leave town some days), he has to live with a cat and four small shitthus. He never growls or be agressive to them. 

So, my guess is that if op follows his gut feeling that giving some opportunites Salty to meet other dogs in very secure environments, Salty may get over the uncertenty with other dogs. 

In the below, Eli barks at this cat, but, it's very friendly one. He still barks and run for cats and birds in the streets. 

 

[CptJack]

Molly has historically had some pretty major issues with other dogs.  Molly has also, in the past, had some pretty major fear issues.  She no longer has said fear issues, but this changes nothing at all about her reaction to strange dogs and greetings on leash.  I can introduce her to any dog, in a controlled setting and have her be quite fine.  Asking her to 'meet' a dog in passing, on a walk, is both useless to her and dangerous.   So we don't, period and the end. 

 

She has some dog 'friends' - by which I mean dogs she shares space with off leash and interacts appropriately with.  She does not 'play' with them, or any dog she doesn't live with, but seeing the dog around for quite a while,  has not interacted and is then usefully and productively engaged in another activity she eventually becomes fairly fond of the dog.  They lose their 'novelty' and prove they're not going to be a jerk with her and all is well. 

 

It is VERY important to realize that sometimes a desire to 'greet' is actually information seeking from a nervous or insecure dog.   They're curious and want to know if it's a problem.  Then they get close and decide that, yes, it's a problem.  And now they're in snap/snarl/bite range. 

 

Picture tax:

 

The lab is most definitely not mine

[Salty the bordercollie]

21 hours ago, CptJack said:

This is pretty typical border collie.  They are sharp, they get offended easily, and respond to percieved slights and discomfort in a blink.

Yup this sounds like my girl Salty. She’s actually quite a sensitive little soul but yes reacts quickly! Thank you for the advice, salty isn’t good driven at all esp when out and about but I will try use the ball as she LOVES it, and will not bother with on lead greetings. Do you think I should give her a chance to meet other dogs off lead that she might get along with or just keep our distance?  

Your girl Molly is a beauty, thank you for sharing her story! 

 

[Salty the bordercollie]

8 hours ago, CptJack said:

It is VERY important to realize that sometimes a desire to 'greet' is actually information seeking from a nervous or insecure dog.   They're curious and want to know if it's a problem.  Then they get close and decide that, yes, it's a problem.  And now they're in snap/snarl/bite range. 

 

Picture tax:

 

The lab is most definitely not mine

Yes thank you you are right , I think she is rushing to greet to seek information then decides uh ah no way ! 

[CptJack]

34 minutes ago, Salty the bordercollie said:

Yup this sounds like my girl Salty. She’s actually quite a sensitive little soul but yes reacts quickly! Thank you for the advice, salty isn’t good driven at all esp when out and about but I will try use the ball as she LOVES it, and will not bother with on lead greetings. Do you think I should give her a chance to meet other dogs off lead that she might get along with or just keep our distance?  

Your girl Molly is a beauty, thank you for sharing her story! 

 

 

I would only bother with greeting if it's a dog she is likely to have regular contact with.  Which is to say a dog owned by a friend, or dogs owned by someone you'd like to be a friend/hike with, or dogs owned by a pet sitter.  I would not bother at all in situations where you have a tight time frame and/or are unlikely to lay eyes on them again.  

[Salty the bordercollie]

Ok thank you, last question.. when walking on lead around town I have been giving her a lead correction and saying ‘ah’ when she starts to focus on a dog across the road and keep her walking do you think this is the right thing to do? Or am I creating a negative association with the presence of the other dog ? 

Thank you for all the advice , I live in an area where there’s lots of dogs around town and at the beach so it’s been stressful the last few months making sure she gets enough exercise.

[Salty the bordercollie]

18 hours ago, bzjetsky said:

 

My guess is partly that when he feels insecure (a bit afraid), he barks and lunges toward other dogs, which usually are bigger than him - shephards, labs, etc. (he has been lucky not to be engaged in a big fight). 

Yes I feel Salty is definitely insecure, a confident dog wouldn’t act like that ! 

 

[Salty the bordercollie]

20 hours ago, urge to herd said:

B collies have a strong sense of personal space AND just as strong a sense of appropriate behavior. Cpt. Jack's advice is spot on. Keep moving. You could work on teaching her to switch up sides, so that you can move her easily to the side opposite the approaching dog. Keep her focus on you. When other humans say, "Oh, Flossie just wants to say hi," you can respond with anything from 'I'm doing some training right now' to 'My dog doesn't.' 

Ruth & Gibbs

Yes the ‘I’m doing training right now ‘ might work, so many times I say sorry my dog isn’t good with unfamiliar dogs and the owner just lets their dog run up anyway!! So annoying! 

Yes Salty doesn’t seem to like any dogs She doesn’t know in her space , she only snaps after she has had a chance to sniff the other dogs face, I am trying to not let her get this close as from a distance she is quite fine

[CptJack]

I would probably not correct for that, but try another method of redirecting her attention.  That way the dog doesn't become 'bad' or predict bad things, it's just irrelevant to her.  Ask her to do some tricks, play tug with her or something. 

[GentleLake]

^^ This.

[Salty the bordercollie]

Ok thank you for all your thoughts and suggestions! 

18 hours ago, CptJack said:

I would probably not correct for that, but try another method of redirecting her attention.  That way the dog doesn't become 'bad' or predict bad things, it's just irrelevant to her.  Ask her to do some tricks, play tug with her or something.