Returning to group classes

[jami74]

We did puppy classes with our boy and it was a nightmare. He was so overexcited that he was just crazy. I've posted about it before and have been reassured by reading that other people have had similar experiences at puppy classes.

I would really like to be able to return to group classes because I would love for us to be able to have a go at things like obedience and agility. We had a private lesson with the coaches who run the classes and they were amazed by how calm and sensible and clever he was. I think they were expecting us to be asking for help because of how out of control he seemed at the puppy classes but once we were in and settled he was amazing. They said he could already do the things they practice at the adolescence group classes but we could join and practice being settled.

The thing is, although he was so good on his own I'm worried that entering the training hall with a bunch of adolescent dogs and their people will be too exciting for him. These classes are for dogs and their owners who want help to learn nice behaviour, so I don't imagine they'll be quiet and calm dogs. Once he goes over the top then the only solution is to back off, waving sausage under his nose and trying to reward for good behaviour doesn't work. I don't know how to get him closer to being class ready, the private lesson was good because he got to be calm in the hall and in front of the trainers but everything they wanted to teach us he got right first time.

Can anyone give me any advice? Has anyone had a dog who initially found group training too over-stimulating but eventually overcame it?

[CptJack]

I had a dog who initially found group training absolutely terrifying or over-stimulating in turns.  Does that count?

Specific advice?  Don't bother.    Seriously, just - don't.   All that happened when I continued to insist on group classes to 'work on' the issues was that the behavior I didn't want got more and more ingrained.  No, she wasn't a normal dog to start with (still isn't - would like to eat other dogs), but the bad behavior part doesn't get better for practicing. 

 

I trained via private lessons and club practices that were held outdoors and less structured.  It's still how I train.   Group classes are usually crowded, noisy, indoors and in not a big enough space creating conflict and pressure for the dog.  Taking my training on the road - including to trials and those club practices - helped break the pattern of 'enclosed space with lots of other dogs and people = chaos" while still keeping other dogs and people around as *distractions* so she didn't lose the ability to work and focus around them.  I hate group classes.  I have no intention of doing them again, ever, and particularly not with her.

 

She's 4.5 years old, now.  This is her this past weekend.  At a trial.   With other dogs all over.

  

 

[CptJack]

Basically not doing well in group classes will not actually, on its own, indicate the dog won't be able to trial.

[urge to herd]

Yes to outdoors training classes. And every nosework class I've taken,  all dogs remain in their car until it's their turn to work. Some of the dogs are crated in their cars, others are loose, depends on the dog's need and/or owner preference.

I think outdoors is better for dogs who are particularly noise/motion sensitive, like border collies. There's a lot more space, (of course) , smells aren't nearly as intense, and sound isn't amplified by hard floors & walls the way it is inside a building meant for public access w/dogs. 

If you can find an outdoor class, (might be hard this time of year) or a smaller class, maybe a semi-private class with at most 2 other dogs. Some trainers where I live offer those.

Good luck!

Ruth & Gibbs

[jami74]

Thank-you so much!

And for the video too. I'm sure our boy would love it that! I didn't realise we could probably bypass the indoor good behaviour classes.

53 minutes ago, CptJack said:

Group classes are usually crowded, noisy, indoors and in not a big enough space creating conflict and pressure for the dog.  Taking my training on the road - including to trials and those club practices - helped break the pattern of 'enclosed space with lots of other dogs and people = chaos" while still keeping other dogs and people around as *distractions* so she didn't lose the ability to work and focus around them. 

 

4 minutes ago, urge to herd said:

I think outdoors is better for dogs who are particularly noise/motion sensitive, like border collies. There's a lot more space, (of course) , smells aren't nearly as intense, and sound isn't amplified by hard floors & walls the way it is inside a building meant for public access w/dogs. 

Yes! I even told the trainers if the class was held outside in the field next door then it would be so much easier for him, but that's not how they work.

I had it in my head that he'd need really good behaviour and manners before we could attempt the sort of classes that I think he would really enjoy. Now I know he doesn't, that changes things for us.

[CptJack]

24 minutes ago, urge to herd said:

Yes to outdoors training classes. And every nosework class I've taken,  all dogs remain in their car until it's their turn to work. Some of the dogs are crated in their cars, others are loose, depends on the dog's need and/or owner preference.

I think outdoors is better for dogs who are particularly noise/motion sensitive, like border collies. There's a lot more space, (of course) , smells aren't nearly as intense, and sound isn't amplified by hard floors & walls the way it is inside a building meant for public access w/dogs. 

If you can find an outdoor class, (might be hard this time of year) or a smaller class, maybe a semi-private class with at most 2 other dogs. Some trainers where I live offer those.

Good luck!

Ruth & Gibbs

 

I so, so agree with this.  I run into people talking about how their dogs could never train outdoors and boggle.  Some of this is how environmentally driven they are, but man indoor facilities are almost always stressful.  My dogs can all handle the livestock arena sort of venue my indoor agility trials are in but the 'dogs in one room, doing group training thing'?  Even my most laid back and bombproof dog stresses there and ends up a bad kind of exhausted.  They are ROUGH

.

18 minutes ago, jami74 said:

Thank-you so much!

And for the video too. I'm sure our boy would love it that! I didn't realise we could probably bypass the indoor good behaviour classes.

 

Yes! I even told the trainers if the class was held outside in the field next door then it would be so much easier for him, but that's not how they work.

I had it in my head that he'd need really good behaviour and manners before we could attempt the sort of classes that I think he would really enjoy. Now I know he doesn't, that changes things for us.

 

And as a bonus, when doing things he really loves, he'll build POSITIVE associations rather than more of 'bored and kind of stressed' ones!  Which will help his manners and behavior!