Meet Kevin; we're new!

[KevTheDog]

Hi all! I wanted to introduce myself, after a few weeks of lurking. I'm Amanda, Kevin is my pup! He's a 17 week merle. I've had two rescue border collies in my life in the past, both phenomenal guys. This is my first puppy and now my only dog. Kevin is mostly wonderful - he's quick (naturally) and ready for anything. He very much has great days and ghastly days: sometimes we take him for a walk through our neighborhood in Stockholm and he is a dream; other times he is a barky monster, barking at seemingly nothing, stopping to chomp on my snow boots or pull at my sneaker laces, pulling incessantly or refusing to walk at all (that only happens if we started off as a "pack" and then my husband or I depart; he is not a big fan of that). Or, blessedly, he walks along, pauses when we pause, doesn't pull *too* much (nowhere remotely near perfect yet, but fully tolerable), and it's like hey - we have a dog! How 'bout that! He loves absolutely everyone he meets and is convinced everyone wants to meet him; 80% of the time he is correct so it's hard to train him that not everyone wants to say hi. He hasn't had a ton of opportunities to actively play with other dogs, but he has a very lovely dog-greeting way about him (gentle, a little shy but not fearful, quick to show his tummy, not a barker at other dogs). In general: we are thrilled, Kevin is great.

Our main concerns at the moment: the continued toothiness and the random barking. Will it stop? Both of the borders I have known were pretty quiet guys; it was a surprise to hear a bark unless there were deer present. Kevin barks when we train (Me: "stay" Kevin: "Arf, arf"); he barks at unfamiliar new toys (we remove them if he doesn't stop); he barks when he wants to be let out of the puppy-proofed kitchen (we don't let him out until he's been quiet for at least a minute, but that can be a tall ask). We tend to respond with a quick, sharp "shhh" and that works 50% of the time (albeit momentarily), and we always try to follow up with praise at the very least; we need to be better about having treats on hand at every possible moment. I'm wondering if anyone has had a barky puppy who grew into a quiet adult or if barky pups are necessarily always barky grownups?

Here is Kevin: 

[D'Elle]

Welcome to the BC boards, and I hope you stick around. This is a great source of information and support. The folks here have saved me from making mistakes countless times.

Don't permit the mouthiness. It is harmless now when he is a baby but if allowed to continue it will be harder to break him of it when he is an adult dog, which time will come fast. Tell him No in a firm but quiet voice, or "uh-uh" or whatever you want to use, and put him in his crate or the other room every time he bites, however playful it is. Bring him back in 5 minutes and if he starts it up again, repeat. He's smart, he will stop the behavior fast. He does it to get attention; if he gets the opposite of what he wants, he won't do it.

Barky puppies don't always make barky adults, but it is best to stop this behavior as well. It is highly self-rewarding for dogs to bark, so you have to make it no longer as rewarding as stopping is. There is a wonderful protocol called "The Look At That Game", from a good book called "Control Unleashed" which I highly recommend. You might find the whole protocol online. It works.

Thanks for the puppy photos (we love puppy photos here!) He is a real cutie!

 

[urge to herd]

Just yes. Yes to everything D'Elle says. And that goes double for how over-the-top CUTE he is.

Ruth & Gibbs

[GentleLake]

Ditto to all the above. ^^

Some people prefer a high pitched Ow! or Ouch! to saying no when he's mouthy. The idea is that when pups do that in their litters the other pup will scram in protest and then all the fun stops. So you'd be mimicking that with a squeal and then a total lack of attention for a few moments.

Just like some people, some puppies aren't as quick to learn as others. As they get a bit older the squeal may be followed with a bit of a snarl by the other puppy. A real telling off. Their mothers will do this too if the biting goes on too long. So if trying the squeal and withholding attention doesn't work after a couple of weeks then by all means sharp No, again followed by withdrawing attention, is in order.

 

[SarahA14]

Kevin is SO cute!  

My big dog (not a BC he’s a mix of Staffy, GSP, SharPei, husky) was quite the vocal pup.  He learned quickly it wasn’t ok to talk back or bark at everything. Now when he barks I know I need to pay attention. 

We tend to use the same words to train all of our dogs.  Then they all have the same boudries to follow.  We avoid the word no, mostly because it’s easy for us to say no to anything but leaves our dogs unsure of what we expect.  Physical contact, not hitting or hurting just touch, can help reinforce what’s being said.   Barking puppies get a “quiet” with a (gentle) hand around the snout.  I don’t hold their mouths closed, I just want them to register the word with closing their mouth which makes them quite.  When they do what’s asked we always say “good” and get a pet head to tail.

My BC pup Wheeler is my first really mouthy pup.  For mouthing/biting, I say “ouch! Don’t bite!” I add a little drama to how I say it and push the snout away. If it continues I grab his scruff (not to hurt) and pull him back and tell him “don’t bite” with a more serious tone.  If that doesn’t work he gets rolled to his back and I tell him again.  If he’s calmed down he gets praised “good” and pet. If he’s still sassing he goes in his bed (crate).   We haven’t had too many timeouts in bed. 

Mouthing on items (couch, shoes, other non toy/living creatures) is “leave it” and we actually remove the dog from the item and offer a toy.  

[KevTheDog]

15 hours ago, D'Elle said:

 

There is a wonderful protocol called "The Look At That Game", from a good book called "Control Unleashed" which I highly recommend. You might find the whole protocol online. It works. 

 

 

Thank you for the book tip! I have seen the title pop up here and there on these forums and was considering getting it - though I am curious if people feel generally like it's good for all dogs, or if it is more for 'problem dogs' (though perhaps by virtue of their puppy-esque nature, one might consider all puppies to be problem dogs if viewed through the lens of adult expectations, ha) - thoughts on that?

Kevin doesn't tend to bark at traditional triggers per se, he barks when 1) We are preparing his food and he wants it. He gets a "shh" and when he's been quiet, while waiting for his kibble to soak, we may toss a few pieces on the floor for a 'search' game; 2) Frequently when we are training, especially with "Stay" lately.   3) Randomly on walks - it's more like "Hello world!" rather than "I want that squirrel!"  So we may need to be creative about our application of the protocol - though I can *totally* see how this could be useful!

Thank you to everyone else as well! I am really, really excited to be engaging with this kind of resource.

 

[D'Elle]

The protocols in the book are not just for "problem" dogs. They are just good training ideas for anyone to use.

[ShellyF]

I have quiet ‘training/bonding’ time with my little guy every morning before the family is up. 

He comes out of his crate and we cuddle on the sofa together. The squirming wriggling nipping little pup is now a big 8 month boy and we have achieved between 10-20 mins of time spent with him letting me fuss him without him nipping. Some mornings are better than others and eventually he does a bit of flea nibbling. I know it’s him being affectionate but he still gets a ‘no’ and on those mornings when he can’t help himself and decides to ignore my ‘no’ he gets shoved off and I go and get on with chores. 

Every once in a while he gets cranky/boisterous and then he’s back in crate for a time out. But that’s rare now  

Patience and perseverance is key and the excessive amount of high energy visitors over the holidays didn’t help!