Cutebutpsycho Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 I would love to hear success stories about adopting adult BCs to give me hope! We spent a couple years looking for the perfect puppy for our lifestyle - contacting breeders, checking rescues and all that. Then, we ended up with a year old, adorable, monster, BC mix. In the past two months, we have made so much progress! But, we also have frustrating moments each day that make us question every choice we have ever made up to this point. Please tell me it gets easier! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rufftie Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 yes, it does, once the BC trains you, it will be perfect. LOL. actually, I've adopted 2 adult BC's. one from Carolina Border Collie Rescue, one privately. the 1st was a complete unknown quantity. she was found in a high kill shelter, HW pos. The rescue pulled her and saved her. I fell in love with her little foxy face at first sight (my avatar) and had to adopt her. she was a handful at first. obsessed with anything she could stare at. we redirected with first obedience classes, then agility training. I recommend classes rather than home schooling as I find it a great socializing and bonding experience. there will be highs and lows, but I find that to be the experience for every breed. always keep training. even when you don't think you're training, your dog is learning. keep busy, but train off switch. my girl is now over 10 and has gone deaf. it took me over 6 mons. to realize the severity of her deafness because she is so great at reading my body language. it was only when she no longer reacted to thunderstorms that it was confirmed. she's arthritic now and we no longer compete in agility and I wish I had been a better partner for her and could do it all again with more joy and less angst. she is dedicated to me and we often get compliments on how well behaved she (and my other 2) dogs are. she still has her border collie moments, but her weirdness and my weirdness are a match. good luck, and you've got quite the cute one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Parkey Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 It does! At one year old, your cute dog still has a puppy brain--quick to learn, but equally quick to act like he has forgotten everything you tried to teach him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cutebutpsycho Posted January 2, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 We had not planned to get a BC. We had been looking at laid-back large breed puppies or maybe a golden retriever. I had read John Katz’s A Good Dog a couple years ago and had been traumatized. But of course I completely forgot about that until the honeymoon period wore off with our furry little angel. He is a smart boy and loves to hike and run with me. He came to us overweight, debarked, and with a lot of pent up energy. He previous owners told me ( after I had brought him home of course) that they hadn’t been walking him or letting him in the house for a couple months because he was just too wild. We have been taking weekly obedience classes at Petsmart that have helped SO much! We also had a trainer come out to our house to work with us. His most annoying behavior is barking and nipping. I’m not sure what triggers it, but he sometimes just stares at us and barks and when we ignore him nips ankles and legs. We thought he had been improving but he has been back at it the last couple of days. Any tips on dealing with this? We usually redirect, but lately he won’t atop and I’ve started just leaving the room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urge to herd Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 Welcome to the BC Boards. I've got my 4th now. All of my dogs have been adults when they came to me. It's great to read that you're having such success w/classes and individual work. Yes, it does get better. Yes, there are things that you can do. As to triggers, it's likely that at his age, (a year old, right?) he's bored. He wants something to do, preferably interaction with you. One way to deal with this is to do some kind of training throughout the day, in short bursts here and there. Work on a trick or some obedience here and there, just for a few minutes at a time. There are books available with tons of tricks and how to teach them. I've got 2 from my public library right now: 101 Dog Tricks (Kyra Sundance) and The Best Dog Tricks on the Planet, (Babette Hagarty). They are possibly available on Amazon as well. Try feeding him at least part of his meals in a kong or other food toy. You can soak kibble, if that's what you feed, in water, then stuff a kong and freeze it. Takes them a little longer to excavate. If you're doing all of the above and he's still bugging you, try putting him in a 'time out' when he barks. Oh, you're barking? That means you want to go in your crate for a rest! In you go, drape a cloth over it so he can't see you. When you get a minute of quiet, he gets to come out. More barking? Back in the crate. If you're consistent, he'll figure out that barking doesn't do him any good at all. This advice assumes that you know that he doesn't need to pee or poo and it isn't meal time. Do Not Allow Nipping. Right into the crate ~ Every Single Time. If that doesn't work, you'll need to hire that trainer again, if he/she will work with that issue. Barking is rude and annoying behavior. Nipping can lead to a dog being killed. I have a friend who had a small dog who nipped children. I advised her several times to work w/a trainer and to not let kids near the dog, ever. She ignored the advice, and had to have her dog put to sleep after he bit a child. It was probably the 4th or 5th bite that I was aware of. With both the suggestions just above, you need to be dispassionate. If he gets that you are angry, etc., it might make the barking/nipping worse. These beasts are very in tune to their humans. For many of them, whenever their human is upset, they take it on and get worse, not better. Good luck with it all ~ it sounds as though you're on the right track. Ruth & Gibbs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooper2 Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 Nothing to add to Ruth's excellent advice but, DO NOT let anything you read in Jon Katz's book influence your expectations for your dog. One could fill a book with mistakes he made with that dog (in fact he did fill a couple books describing his mistakes, just not acknowledging that they were indeed mistakes). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D'Elle Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 I fully agree with everything Urge To Herd said, and also the above post from Hooper2. And, thanks for adopting an adult border collie from a rescue. I have always had rescue dogs, and was a foster home for 8 years for a border collie rescue. Sometimes it takes a long time, sometimes it is fast, but these dogs do learn, so hang in there. This is a great source of information and advice and support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urge to herd Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 Doh! forgot to put in the remark about Katz. Thx, Hooper and D'Elle for mentioning it. Ruth & Gibbs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cutebutpsycho Posted January 2, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 Thank you for all the thoughtful replies and encouragement! Urge to herd, we have been using all of those tricks to keep him busy. I just made him a snuffle mat too! I wish that we had known about those sort of things in the first couple of weeks. Several short training sessions have been helpful as well. Thank you for the advice about crating him when he is being a brat. We had discussed this but thought his crate was not supposed to be used as punishment? Of course we don’t know much and most of the things we thought we knew were wrong ! We will try this for a couple weeks and see how he does. He already got to test out timeout this afternoon, bless his demonic heart. If he does his barking/nipping outside, how should we handle it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D'Elle Posted January 3, 2019 Report Share Posted January 3, 2019 Here's the thing about using a crate for training. It is unwise to use the crate for punishment. But whether it is punishment or not is all up to you. Your attitude, language, and body language make it so or not so. So, do not ever, ever put the pup in the crate when you are angry. He will feel it and it will then be punishment. Don't scold or grab him by the collar. Instead, act as if it is simply a law of the universe, like gravity. Uh-oh! You did this, now you go in the crate. You can have a normal tone of voice, and just gently put him in and walk away. He will not develop a hatred or fear of the crate if you handle it this way; he will just know that if he does (fill in the blank) he has to spend time isolated from everyone else. It works, but you really need to have the right attitude about it for it to work the way you want it to. I just say "uh-oh! Crate time!" and pick up the dog and put him in the crate very matter-of-fact. Pretty soon, the behavior stops when I say "uh-oh!". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urge to herd Posted January 3, 2019 Report Share Posted January 3, 2019 ^^^ D'Elle explains it nicely. It's been a few years since I used this technique, and I recall whoever told me about it saying for me to use an upbeat tone. "OH!, How lucky for you! You get to have a nice rest in your crate!" Border collies are geniuses at interpreting human tone & body language. So, if you're all grim and gruff about throwing that disobedient mutt in the kennel, the dog is going to fear you. Not understand that it's behavior is what is causing the separation. If you're matter of fact/neutral/upbeat and cheery, (you only need to pick one and be consistent) it won't take the dog very long to make the connection: "Hmmm, I was barking a lot the LAST time I got put in this thing!" and figure it out. I can't remember who told me this, but I heard many years ago that border collies are an amazing, frustrating mix of soft as whipped cream and hard as nails. That's been my experience. The human's challenge is to remain neutral. That's our best bet of truly retaining the upper hand. Ruth & Gibbs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D'Elle Posted January 3, 2019 Report Share Posted January 3, 2019 9 minutes ago, urge to herd said: The human's challenge is to remain neutral. That's our best bet of truly retaining the upper hand. Ha-ha!! So true, Ruth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentleLake Posted January 3, 2019 Report Share Posted January 3, 2019 Yep. Think of it as a consequence rather than a punishment. The difference is entirely about how you do it. When I use it this way -- as opposed to crate time because I have to leave or just need to be able to focus on something other than the pup/dog -- that when it's a consequence, say for mouthing, I'll react to the mouthing with my Ow! or No and then pick the pup up and pop him in the crate without saying another word and walk away for however long the time out will be. To my thinking this is a little different from saying something upbeat, which can be a kind of verbal reinforcement for whatever had just happened and I don't want to reinforce it at all. OTOH, when popping the dog into the crate for other reasons that are just management issues I want to make a positive association. So the former is consequence for the preceding action by the dog and hopefully not a consequence that dog doesn't really like (and of play and being removed from whatever activity's going on) but doesn't have negative associations, while the second is maybe not really enjoyable but something that's just a part of daily life and may be accompanied by a treat and or a chew. In fact, pairing the management crate time with an extra positive ting happening (e.g. treat) reinforces the difference between the two, that the consequence action just means that everything fun stops as the result of what the pup just did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShellyF Posted January 4, 2019 Report Share Posted January 4, 2019 I agree with above re crates for punishment i.e. just because you are giving him a time out to calm down doesn’t mean it’s a punishment. I use words like ‘ok buddy, nap time’. Sometimes he resists a bit and other times he goes charging in haha! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cutebutpsycho Posted January 4, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2019 So far, the time outs have been working. As soon as he starts, I just walk over and say kennel quietly. He hops in and I cover it and ignore him for a couple minutes. Then he comes back out and we resume what we were doing and act like nothing happened. We have had less incidents and I think he already knows that his bratty behavior has consequences now. It’s really nice to have a plan of action, instead of just trying to ignore him. I’ll give an update after a week or so to see how it’s been working. Here is one quick pic of Tripp helping with house renovations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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