Did I adopt a border collie?

[hshaines]

Hello,

I am a new dog owner. I know a tiny bit about dogs, but not much about behavior or BCs. As I learn more about my little girl, the more I realize need to understand who she is to give her what she needs. Recently, she has displayed some behavior that got me looking into her genes and that has lead me here.  I am hoping some experienced people can help me out. 

I met Freya last January at a rescue and it was love at first.  They told me she was a 10 month old lab/shepherd mix who was smart, quiet, and possibly high energy.  I got her because she was everything I wanted- young, energetic, interested in me, intelligent, not pushy, super sweet, and would do well in an apartment. I had researched breeds and thought a mix would be the best bet for me since I live in a small apartment with no yard. I have had no issues with her living in a small apartment. 

I took her to the dog park yesterday.  She has been before and every time she likes run after dogs and get involved with the more active and exciting personalities.  She is also very sweet and submissive and I have to keep an eye on her  because she can be a target.  Yesterday,  I saw some new behavior from her.

I'm wondering if this is herding behavior. I saw her hit top speed in two strides and go into a full extended gallop- it was so beautiful.  She could catch up to anyone, but never did.  If they slowed down, she would bark at them or maybe nip their shoulder, but she was never aggressive- if they tell her to back off she will.   I watched her, and it seemed like she was intentionally matching her pace to be a few strides behind the other dog. I watched her turn on a dime and one time she did this zig zag movement with her forepaws like a roping horse in a competition.  She would also bark at dogs who were playing together like she was coaching them. It was my first time seeing her move with such speed, precision, and agility.   She also had this moment where she ran after a dog a little ways and stopped, head lowered, tail down and still and she was intently watching the dog.  I've seen her do this for squirrels, cats, and birds.  It's not the famed collie walk- I haven't seen that from her.  The entire time she was there, it seemed like she was looking for something to do, like mere play wasn't enough of a challenge. 

Freya has a prey drive and is also very food motivated. Frisbee is her favorite game and she is super friendly and excited to meet dogs and people. She has tried training me. I'll call her over to eat and she'll do every trick she knows without my asking. She does have separation anxiety, but no destruction issues.  She is very calm indoors, usually sleeping, looking out the window, or chewing her toys.  That is, until I open the closet, or put on a jacket, or put on socks, or grab her leash- then it's all snorting, jumping, stretching, stomping, and pushing against me like she's telling me what to do and to do it faster. And when we're outside it's all excitement and acting like a cartoon. She has also gotten very sassy in her training sessions and can be very stubborn. 

One time, I took her to some game lands in the off season and let her off leash. She worked the brush like a bird dog and even flushed some quail. She jogged the entire time and would stop and wait I was too far behind. If she is too cooped up, she will act out with running around and demanding that I play, pacing, and whining.  It seems like a 6-8 mile hike is the only way to wear her out and she is energized and engaged the entire time.  Her face lights up during and after physical exercise. See that second picture where she is looking up at the camera? That was after 8 hours at a doggy day camp.  

How fast does she learn? It depends on the reward!  When I first got her, she would NOT get into the car.  So one day, I picked her up, put her in, and took her to a park.  After that, she was in love with the car and would jump in any door that was open.  She gets so excited when I have the keys in my hands! Simple tricks usually take 3-4 repetitions.

Oh and she is always watching me.  When other dogs watch me, it's like they're just seeing something moving.  When she watches me, it's like I'm being studied or judged.  When I played violin for her the first time, she paced back and forth and would sit and watch what I was doing like she was trying to figure it out or even learn it herself. 

Anyway, I feel like I have this amazing dog that needs more from me and I want to know more about her so I can give that to her.  I looked into border collies because she is a herder and has that classic BC color.  I have heard that BCs are workaholics and I think I saw that in her when I was at the dog park.  There were other herding breeds there, but no one was as intense and focused as she was.  When I saw the photos of the smooth coated border collies in the photos area, I was shocked at how much Freya I saw in them. She also looks like McNab dog, but that's less likely in my area. 

Freya has hare feet. Is that a BC trait? 

So here I am wondering if my wonderful girl is BC or a large percentage BC. Or is at least a BC at heart. You all seem to know a lot about this breed and wide variations in appearance a BC can have, so what do you think?  BC? BC mix? BC at heart? 

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[Mandy1961]

I am no means an expert, but she certainly looks like a border collie to me, especially with those ears, adorable. She also sounds super intelligent. 

[Lawgirl]

Also not an expert, but if you came towards me on a path I would assume I was meeting a smooth coat Border Collie, or maybe a Collie x Kelpie, or a koolie (I am from Australia).

I would treat your dog like you have a working dog (BC, kelpie, koolie, whatever).  Smart, driven, active and energetic, human focussed and one of the best and most loving dogs you will ever meet and you cannot go wrong.  Don't get too fixated on the exact breed, maybe just say working dog mix or herding dog mix and perfect for you!

BTW I love the photos, she looks like a real sweetheart and congratulations for rescuing Freya (love the name!).  I hope you have many happy years together.

[urge to herd]

^^^ What they both said. In addition, if the pic of her on the sink area are Freya all-grown-up, she's a bit on the small side to be a Lab/shepherd mix. The first thing I thought when I saw the pix was that's a smooth coated BC.

Enjoy her! Sounds like you're doing a good job.

Ruth & Gibbs

[GentleLake]

On 12/17/2018 at 2:06 PM, hshaines said:

I'm wondering if this is herding behavior. I saw her hit top speed in two strides and go into a full extended gallop- it was so beautiful.  She could catch up to anyone, but never did.  If they slowed down, she would bark at them or maybe nip their shoulder, but she was never aggressive- if they tell her to back off she will.   I watched her, and it seemed like she was intentionally matching her pace to be a few strides behind the other dog. (emphasis added)

Welcome to the Boards.

From the pic Freya looks like she could be a border collie or border collie mix. Often it's more behavior that's the giveaway rather than appearance, though , as many mixes that have no or little border collie can appear very similar. IIRC all of my border collies have had hare feet, but so do many breeds. But she looks and sounds border collie to me as well.

As for the dog park behavior I wouldn't call that herding behavior at all. However it is very typical of border collie play behavior. My dogs have always preferred engaging with other dogs in chase games like this. The point of the game is the chase, and not at all about who's fastest or whether the dog chasing can overtake the lead dog. They'll often maintain the same distance between chaser and the chased for quite some while, only for both to turn on a dime and reverse positions, with neither chaser ever catching up with the dog being chased. They're usually not interested in rough and tumble play with dogs they don't know and often tend to be standoffish (or worse) with dogs who want to play that way, but will joyfully engage in a good game of chase.

[Ranchhand]

Wow, @hshaines - your sweet girl looks alot like my shorthair BC’s. Her ears, though, look a little larger, and her hind conformation perhaps more sloped, as though the GS could be in the mix. I hear that a DNA test runs about $80, which might be interesting to check. I’d vote GS/ BC mix 

If that’s true, you have a herding combo- 

[D'Elle]

She looks like an on-the-small-side smooth coat border collie to me, but possibly a mix with something else that is also small. No lab or shepherd do I see there at all. My experience is that if a shelter has no idea what a dog is, they will call it either a lab/shepherd or a chihuahua/terrier, depending on size.

Purebred border collies can be any size from 25 to 60 pounds although the extreme ends are less common. She sounds like a great dog and you seem to be doing fine with her. Just remember one thing: these dogs need stimulation, to be sure, but you actually can over do the exercise. If you give the dog 6 hours of exercise a day you will create a dog who will demand 6 hours of exercise a day. (Just pulling that figure from my head, not commenting on what you are doing, here.) She also needs mental stimulation, and that can wear her out just as well as the physical activity can, so think up everything you can to train her to do and train her. It sounds to me as if she will do great at that. She's a lovely dog! 

And, welcome to the BC Boards. You have come to a very good place. The folks here are very knowledgeable and have helped me out immeasurably. Lots of support and help here, so I would advise sticking around. 

[Icaraa]

She’s beautiful. I’d say with some certainty she’s a Border Collie, don’t think she’s got anything else in her. Facially she’s so similar to our Ben, he does have all the whispy bits round his ears though and being a boy has more masculine features. 

[hshaines]

Thanks all! Everyone had such awesome input and advice! I appreciate the support and insight into her behavior.  She is  a true sweetheart and I can't get enough of her, no matter what she is.

She weighs 50lbs and her ears are 4 inches tall (because why not measure them?). 

She was a year old in the sink photo. 

@Icaraa Ben is so handsome!   

@D'Elle Thanks for the advice! I'll have to come up with some more tricks for her. And I'll definitely stick around!

[alligande]

She certainly looks and sounds like she has a lot of border collie if not all border collie. Welcome to the wonderful and weird world of living with a border collie, this is one of the best places to learn about them. We adopted our first by mistake as well, I would never have dreamed of owning a sheepdog living in a town but I fell in love with a pretty face, we are now on border collie #4 and could not imagine having another breed. 

[D'Elle]

9 hours ago, alligande said:

. We adopted our first by mistake as well, I would never have dreamed of owning a sheepdog living in a town but I fell in love with a pretty face, we are now on border collie #4 and could not imagine having another breed. 

My first border collie was dumped on me without notice or my permission,  and I kept her.  I didn't think she was a border collie because she was not black and white. That is how ignorant I was about the breed 20 years ago.  I have had border collies in my life ever since. No turning back.

[urge to herd]

Raises hand to join the chorus of Totally Ignorant About Border Collies, until I got one. I probably had never even heard the breed name before. Fell in love with Samantha ~ everything about her. Shoshone had been badly treated and needed a home. Buzz was just a few hours from being put to sleep  when I heard about him. We went from no dogs to 3 border collies in just under 3 years.

And they are definitely my dog of choice.

Ruth & Gibbs