Dog to Dog behavior help

[unfocus]

So its been 6 months now with my Border Collie who was originally a cattle herding dog for 2 years. Farmer got rid of her because she wanted to play with his kids and the other dogs. 

Fast forward now, she still reactive to any dog out in public and lunges immediately, I see it more as a protective instinct for her to protect me. How do I train her to at least tolerate other dogs. 

[Ranger.2016]

I would be curious to know how she played with the other dogs.  Was she sticky eyed and treated them like moving stock?  New dogs could be perceived as stock to her mind.  Also, how much was she leashed growing up.  She could be leash reactive, triggered by certain things when restrained.  I don't know how old she is but these could be learned behaviors that would take daily desensitization to diminish.  How is she off leash with new dogs or is this uncharted territory? 

When she lunges, does she stand up on her hind legs and bound at all?  Or is it a direct line of I'm going to get that?  

[unfocus]

Sorry, so she's been a cattle dog for 2 years, no leash, always free. She played with 2 other border collies, not sure how they played but I'm sure its like how any other border collie would play.

If she sees another dog from a distance its instant posture and pulling the leash. If she hears one barking from a house she'll immediately go off the line like I'm going to get that, which is the same way if a dog comes out of no where when I'm walking down the street its immediate lunge before all the body signs. 

There's been a couple scenarios where a random dog has come out of no where while I play fetch with her off leash, and she'll immediately go to the dog and growl and attack them right off the bat. So even off leash she is pretty bad. I'm assuming this is more of a protective instinct towards me, I'm always certain if she was with a stranger she would be reserved. We have a 7 month old puppy at home who is always separated from her with a little pen fence in the house. My dog Bo tolerates her but if she gets out the pen and starts visiting her, Bo will either run away or growl and snarl at her, which is the best I've seen her with another dog. 

[Ranger.2016]

I'm assuming she lived a typical farm life and was just on the farm.  I'm also assuming you live in a city or suburb but not really rural or on a farm.  If this is the case, the dog is stimulated by a drastic change of pace, sights, sounds, and all that.  These dogs are what I like to call over analyzers at times.  What many breeds would just say "okay, that's the way it is, sure" border collies get down to the nitty gritty "why? Or I'm suspicious of that, that looks suspicious.  Who are you and what do you want?"  ...it could go on forever.  

Also, it's typical as females grow up, they won't necessarily stay pup social.  Perhaps they are not interested in dogs at all.  In a household with male and female dogs.  Females run the house.   It appears yours is unsure and she is prepared to stand her ground.   Perhaps more fight than flight in her.  She is/was a working dog.  I'm not sure how great she was on stock but if she actually worked cattle, she is no soft dog.  With that being said, do you know for a fact she was too busy playing with the kids and the other dogs?  Or was that just a line you were fed to make it easier to regime and get her off the farm?  I'm not trying to pass judgement, just pick the brain.

Do you take her out walking daily?  Maybe try walking the same few routes each week.  She will get used to the dogs barking and all the commotion.  Then start growing her walking territory.   It will be a slow process but she should eventually settle some with consistency.  You can always try to redirect her attention on you if she is fixated on a dog.  Walk in front of her eyes and block her view of the other dog.  If she tries to look around you, say "Aah!"  Maybe this will get her to look at you and you can lead her in another direction.  You need her to know you get the final say.  She can alert you to whatever it is that is bothering her or catching her attention but when you tell her enough, she needs to believe you and respect you.  It is a partnership.

I do not think if she was with a stranger, she would be any better.  She could become even more anxious and more reactive.  She would have no known around her.  Or she would shut down and cower but I would be waiting for the fear snap if anyone tried to get close.  

How old is this dog, btw?  

Keep her seeing the puppy if these two are going to live together but also supervise.  Two females can be quite difficult especially if one is already very set in her ways.  Just keep working hard with the older one, taking her out daily but not too long to where she is overehelmed.  Their body language says a lot.  You must learn to read your dog's signals.  Observe her closely, you may learn her order of operations and be able to catch some of these reactive moments before they happen. 

 

[unfocus]

Sorry for the late response I keep forgetting to check in on this site. I do live in the city, I take her for a walk every morning and before bed, normally fetch when we wake up but due to the winter season we don't have day light that early so I just walk her longer, I take her out for fetch about 2x a day during winter season, 4x during summer. She's really laid back and not a go go go energized collie like others, but she is pretty firm on letting me know she wants to go play by coming to me for attention and staring at her ball afterwards on the shelf lol. 

Do you think perhaps if I walk my Collie Bo, and my other puppy Bella together it would stimulate my dog okay shes part of this now and maybe create a bond? I'm not sure also how great she was as a cattle dog and perhaps maybe I was fed the lines to buy her but as of now she is very friendly towards people and his kids  weren't short they were like tall 13 year olds, younger kids shes more cautious with. She is obssessed with playing fetch with the ball, you can be a stranger but if she sees you with the ball she will only focus you. 

She is about 2 years old and 9 months now. My other puppy is super friendly towards everyone and I don't want the puppy learning bad behavior from Bo just because Bo is older. 

[Ranger.2016]

Hi!  I would NOT walk them together.  Your pup needs her own time to grow and learn and not be a victim of attack if your older female were to redirect her aggression on the puppy when out and about.  Your older dog also needs time with you, alone, to build her confidence coming from farm life with no leash to on a leash city bustle.  You will always have to think ahead "will this set my dog(s) up for failure?"

Does Bo get to run off leash much?  I find letting the dogs out for even a 20 to 30 minute ground and pound through some trails does wonders for the mind.  Also, you could teach Bo some fancy tricks...like weaving between your legs, forwards then backwards, turning around your legs while walking backwards (basically circling around you walking backwards.  The list goes on.  ...these are just ideas to stimulate her brain.  You would need to use some tasty food/treat item as a lure.  Lots of videos on the internet.  Make sure you do this in a space with no other dogs.  You want Bo focusing on you and the task at hand, not snapping at the puppy because the puppy wants in on the fun.

Also, two females can be a difficult combo.  I'm not saying it is not doable, it can just be tough. My neighbor has 3 girl dogs, two intact.  The middle dog is the boss.  She bosses the oldest (who is spayed), and the youngest.  She will even come at my older border collie depending on where she is in her cycle.  I won't let her ride in my car with my younger border collie.  I don't trust them in close spaces.

Is Bo spayed?  If not, hormones could be playing a huge role in her behavior, especially if she cycles every 6 months or so.

I am going out on a limb here, but I think Bo lacks confidence and perhaps has been attacked or threatened enough by other dogs in the past.  She gets defensive and will pounce on another dog before it could do the same to her.  Basically the whole, shoot first and ask questions later.  

I have read, positive human interaction can change the way a dog will eventually perceive other dogs.  Since you stated she is friendly with human strangers, I would allow her to meet them every walk.  Pack some food, ask people to offer your dog a treat if she seems excited to say hi to the people.  Walk to a local coffee shop, maybe they will have a biscuit to give to the dog.  Little children are a challenge, they move weirdly and do strange things according to a dog.  If she has not been around them, she may be unsure for a long long time.  I would only let her interact with small children where you know the parents and the children are confident around dogs.  Never leave a child unattended with your dog.  Kids do foolish things when eyes are not on them and dogs can react at the speed of light.

When it comes to ball, I have a love hate relationship with it.  I let my 2 border collies play ball but I don't want it to become an obsession for them.  I am not big on ball fixation.  It also can amp a dog up and that does not help you for when another dog appears.  My basically 3 year old border collie is fine and in control of himself.  My 14 month old border collie can get too wound up on ball that he will tip from overly excited into aggression.  I have to monitor him closely to pay attention to his signals so I know when it is time to leave all other dogs and the area we are in.  

If I were in your shoes, I would be looking for other activities to interact with your dog.  ...you could always try herding, if it is accessible to you and you are interested.  It is a highly rewarding partnership for the dog and you.

And most importantly, enjoy the individual time you spend with each dog.  It is a never ending learning experience for both parties.  Always keep a light heart and roll with the punches. After all, the dog must learn to fit into the human world...for some it will be easier, others not so much.  Consistency will be your best friend, and remaining calm when sh!t hits the fan will also help your older dog. 

Keep me posted!  I hope you have noticed positive changes since your first post on this topic!

[unfocus]

I have let Bo off leash in our alley and she doesn't seem to run just kind of gallop ahead but not too far ahead, in open fields she usually just walks around or stays by my side. 

Bo is spayed and I have a feeling that when she lived on the farm the other dogs may have abused her, back story: upon our arrival to the farm the other border collies were very serious, where as bo was playful and very excited to see us, the other dogs didn't want anything so she may have been abused by them before. 

I have been trying to teach her some tricks, I've managed to get her to weave in between my legs now. 

I've been thinking of trying this method, treating Bo on our walks every time she notices another dog but doesn't have an immediate negative reaction (of course this is all based on distance between the two). As well as taking her to our local community dog park but not actually leaving the car, just sitting faced towards the field where she can witness other dogs interact with each other, and treat her constantly on the ones that approach closer. I'm hoping this method can aid the process in her with how she thinks of other dogs. 

[D'Elle]

If you know that your dog is unreliable with other dogs and you allow her off leash at all, ever, that is not being a responsible dog owner. 

You need to work with your dog, on leash, to pay attention to you rather than to lunge toward other dogs. Take a look at the "Look At That" protocol from the book "control Unleashed". It is designed to retrain reactive dogs and it works well, but you need to start at a distance away from the thing that triggers your dog, and move very slowly through the training without ever jumping ahead. And, please, for the sake of the other dogs and yours as well, do not allow her off leash any more!

[unfocus]

Well I think I may have overstated my dogs behavior to other dogs. 

Update: We met up with my friend who Bo loves and she brought her dog to the dog park, we went to the dog park as I wanted to take Bo to the river there. 

Before leaving the vehicle I let Bo Witness dogs from the window at the park( this park is also massive by the way) and treating her accordingly when she didn't bark, growl, or snarl, just notice the dogs. She did really well and eventually stopped growling and barking. I took her out and kept her on leash the whole time(off leash park) she didn't seem to mind the other dogs doing their own thing, in fact she paid no attention to them. My friends tika is pretty relaxed and not all in her face so they just kind of walked side-by-side, and Bo never really growled at her, couple odd times she tried to randomly bite her butt but I just stopped walking and directed her attention to me which she listens really well. The only time she would growl is if a dog off leash approached her too close but the dogs respected her warnings and backed off. Getting to the river, I was really hesitant to let her off leash here, but I was also confident she wouldn't go to any of the dogs which there were probably about 10 there playing in the water. I play fetch with her and she swims to get it, Tika kind of plays with her also, stealing her ball, while Bo didn't snarl or growl or anything, she kind of just followed her waited till she dropped it and for one of us to pick it up, a random dog came a long but Bo didn't react and they all stood side-by-side waiting for the ball. To my surprise and my friend (who works in an animal hospital) said Bo wasn't that at all reactive for the most part and did a whole lot better then she thought. 

I did accept the risk of what could have happened letting Bo off leash but she's been off leash around dogs before at a body of water when we first got her and she never reacted to them other then growls. 

I was planning on getting a basket muzzle for her to wear while she's leashed but I don't there's really a point to that. I was trying to aim on desensitziing her to other dogs around her by showing her I don't pay attention to them or grabbing her attention by recall asking her to sit which she does extremely well.  As well in rewarding her for noticing dogs when we first arrive at the park to give her the mindset, other dogs aren't bad as treats are rewarded. 

Do you think this will help Bo tolerate dogs? She doesn't need to play with them, just want her to be around them and not react, and yes I do understand some dogs won't like other dogs immediately, but I highly doubt that my dog will forever hate every dog.