Maja Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 So I moved here, since Smalahundur and I were talking about rams in a different topic. So the thing is this: Smalahundur said that his rams castrated by the burdizzo method still grow horns. Castrated rams I used to have always stopped growing horns instantly upon castration, which was done surgically. I have Shashlik which I got as a gift sort of, and he had been castrated with the burdizzo clamps, and I always suspected that his castration was somewhat failed and that he ended up with a vasectomy, since his horns are impressive. But now Smalahundur tells me that all his burdizzo castrated rams grow horns. So I am confused. Anybody has the horn/castration relationship figured out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 Doesn't the burdizzo just crush the spermatic "cords"? Could it be a possible burdizzo fail or the ram is producing extra testosterone in the adrenal glands? J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maja Posted October 23, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 The burdizzo is supposed to crush the cords and the blood vessels and thus cause the testicles to atrophy which makes it a castration, since if there are testicles it is not a castration, but sterilization ( I had to read up on this to clarify it in me wee brain). So, yes I think it is possible that Shashlik's castration ended up being a 'vasectomy', but that does not explain Smalahundur's wethers' growing horns (@Smalahundur, from what I understood, your burdizzo wethers always grow horns, right?) - they can't all be mistakes. (I am not going to have any castrated rams; I'm just asking out of curiosity.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smalahundur Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 No mistakes, all wethers here are horned (unless obviously those from polled stock). Those horns grow like Shashlik's; long and wide, but thinner than in uncastrated rams. Significantly bigger than in ewes. That's why I thought him to be a wether, actually I still do. I think a botched burdizzo in which the sperm ducts are succesfully severed, but bloodsupply to the testicals remains intact sounds rather unlikely ( but who knows...?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maja Posted October 24, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2018 But it doesn't make sense. So you have horned burdizzo castrated rams, and I have (had) hornless surgically castrated rams. Being hornless after surgical castration is not dependent on a breed. Obviously in burdizzo castration something different is going on than in surgical castration. And I would like to know what it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smalahundur Posted October 24, 2018 Report Share Posted October 24, 2018 I still think yor logic does not take differences in breed in account; in a breed where the ewes are polled and the rams have horns, strongly reducing testosterone is likely to stop horn growth alltogether. But in a breed like the icelandic, where ewes are also horned ( but with smaller, thinner horns than in the males), the reduced testosterone might only have an inhibiting effect, resulting in wethers that have thinner horns than uncastrated rams. After a burdizzo castration afaik, testicles become completely necrotic, and therefor stop producing testosterone. In principle no difference to removing them. For now I stand by my hypothesis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maja Posted October 24, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2018 My logic is just fine :). Skudde females have no horns. Surgically castrated skudde males have no horns. Intact skudde males have beautiful horns. Shashlik the skudde has horns. So either Shashlik is not a wether, or there is something odd about burdizzo castration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Billadeau Posted October 24, 2018 Report Share Posted October 24, 2018 By extension of your hypothesis...... Horned ewes have more testosterone than polled ewes. correlation does not prove causation https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/17123755/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maja Posted October 28, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2018 I guess I will never know the mystery of ram horns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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