Battle at mealtimes

[dumbbird7]

My bc pup is 16 weeks old.  He's doing brilliantly in almost everything.  I've had him since he was 12 weeks old, and he lives with me and my 13 year old Border Collie, who, by the way, is not totally impressed with this new brat.

Jack is on Iams puppy kibble.  He has decided that he isn't a puppy any longer and expects something better.  I know he is hungry but looks in his dish then walks away.  The resident dog, Dodi, has always been a BARF dog, who always gets his meals first.  I am reluctant to give way on this matter - the dish is taken up after 15 minutes and will be presented at the next mealtime. Bearing in mind that we will be coming up to teething time,  I have offered the kibble slightly moistened with warm water or chicken juice.  Still no deal!  Yesterday he picked at his dinner and took only about a small tablespoonfull for the whole day.  

Am I being too harsh on the lad or must I hold out on this.  Don't want a fussy dog who controls the kitchen (and all who live in it!).

[Mandy1961]

My pup who is 20 weeks old does not like the dry kibble on its own, so I add a spoonful of tinned food or some chicken or whatever meat or veg we have leftover. Are you due a 16 week jab, if so, you can check with the vet if he is gaining weight.

[dumbbird7]

Thanks for this.  Yes he's due  for his 2nd jab on Monday, I weigh both the dogs weekly, mainly to get pup used to vets without anything bad happening (fear week etc).The old boy  has a tendency to gain weight and I am trying to keep him down to about 27k.  The second I stray from the kitchen, big dog is shimmering his way in the shadows to the pup's dish and clears it in seconds. No door to the kitchen so can't close them off. Can't take my eyes off them for a minute.  The pup seems to be gaining weight, began at 7.1 to 7.9 and lately 10.1.  So I reckon he's just pulling a fast one and is thinking of getting off the rickety bottom rung of the ladder and trying for the next one up.  No chance, Pal.

I have tried adding a little chicken or raw beef mince which sometimes finds favour.  I hear that Collies often self-regulate, my others did unbeknown to me in those days. Often didn't eat for 48 hrs at a time.  Trouble is, one doesn't know what day they have decided not to partake, so put food down anyway.  Later with lid on back to fridge, repeat following day then in the bin!  The food I wasted was criminal. Pup is full of beans, either because he's young, or starving!  Can't yet decide which...

[Riika]

Almost all of my puppies have gone through this stage where they refuse to eat. I don’t know why, or if it’s common, but usually around 8 months old they eat extremely little for a week and then get over it. Sometimes they eat good for a week, and then go back to refusing to eat again. One of them did it three times before giving up. They’ve all gone back to normal and never missed more than one meal in a row after that.   

[jami74]

Our puppy seemed to eat so little at that age too. Yet still poo'd loads. He's six months now and still isn't very impressed by kibble, he gets a small amount of meat added to his evening meal and if he chooses not to eat during the day then that is up to him. I use treats for training so he probably gets nearly a meals worth of food training throughout the day.

[juliepoudrier]

Is there a reason not to put him on the same diet as your older dog?

J.

[dumbbird7]

Thanks for this.  Yes he's due  for his 2nd jab on Monday, I weigh both the dogs weekly, mainly to get pup used to vets without anything bad happening (fear week etc).The old boy  has a tendency to gain weight and I am trying to keep him down to about 27k.  The second I stray from the kitchen, big dog is shimmering his way in the shadows to the pup's dish and clears it in seconds. No door to the kitchen so can't close them off. Can't take my eyes off them for a minute.  The pup seems to be gaining weight, began at 7.1 to 7.9 and lately 10.1.  So I reckon he's just pulling a fast one and is thinking of getting off the rickety bottom rung of the ladder and trying for the next one up.  No chance, Pal.

I have tried adding a little chicken or raw beef mince which sometimes finds favour.  I hear that Collies often self-regulate, my others did unbeknown to me in those days. Often didn't eat for 48 hrs at a time.  Trouble is, one doesn't know what day they have decided not to partake, so put food down anyway.  Later with lid on back to fridge, repeat following day then in the bin!  The food I wasted was criminal. Pup is full of beans, either because he's young, or starving!  Can't yet decide which...

[dumbbird7]

These replies very comforting, thanks everyone.  The Old Man who has never favoured kibble but gets a handful with his dinner,  is on beef chunks and raw mince/offal/tripe - a bit rich for such a babe.  Anyway, not sure the milk teeth would be up for it.  However I have chopped up pieces of beef chunks into tiny pieces, some a bit grisly and mixed them in with moist kibble and it's all gone down. The pooh was a lovely colour. When the grown-up teeth start coming through, I shall gradually change him onto raw.  Might have to get out the Red Handbag and spend evenings down on Lloyds corner to pay for two dogs on raw!

This afternoon, I caught him munching on a snail.  Couldn't get it off him so I'm hoping it doesn't contain anything worse than the garden soil he  digs into.  Calcium's good for him anyway. Gave him small pot of plain live yoghurt just in case. We don't give treat here, not even during 'training'.  He does stuff because he luv's me!

[Mandy1961]

14 minutes ago, dumbbird7 said:

Thanks for this.  Yes he's due  for his 2nd jab on Monday, I weigh both the dogs weekly, mainly to get pup used to vets without anything bad happening (fear week etc).The old boy  has a tendency to gain weight and I am trying to keep him down to about 27k.  The second I stray from the kitchen, big dog is shimmering his way in the shadows to the pup's dish and clears it in seconds. No door to the kitchen so can't close them off. Can't take my eyes off them for a minute.  The pup seems to be gaining weight, began at 7.1 to 7.9 and lately 10.1.  So I reckon he's just pulling a fast one and is thinking of getting off the rickety bottom rung of the ladder and trying for the next one up.  No chance, Pal.

I have tried adding a little chicken or raw beef mince which sometimes finds favour.  I hear that Collies often self-regulate, my others did unbeknown to me in those days. Often didn't eat for 48 hrs at a time.  Trouble is, one doesn't know what day they have decided not to partake, so put food down anyway.  Later with lid on back to fridge, repeat following day then in the bin!  The food I wasted was criminal. Pup is full of beans, either because he's young, or starving!  Can't yet decide which...

At 16 weeks Harry weighed 10.3 kilos so your puppy is very similar, so must be eating enough to gain good steady weight. 

[dumbbird7]

Hi Mandy,

Yes he's all legs, like a young colt.  Dad is a long lean BC, mum is brown Beardie.  I've tried to measure at the shoulders, but a total, total waste of time...wriggles, goes for the tape, spins away, dances, laughs at me.  I give up!

[GentleLake]

Julie beat me to the question I was about to ask: what's the reason for not feeding him the same as the other dog? I see your answer, but not the logic.

What do you think wild canid puppies eat? Surely their packs don't save all their fresh kills for themselves and bring home kibble for the pups.

Breeders who feed their dogs raw wean them to raw, not kibble. The chunks are made smaller for the pups or as you've already said you feed, minced. Soft bones like Cornish hens and chicken ribs and wing tips are offered instead of harder bones they can't handle yet. And "rich" is a rather vague and silly term when it comes to raw food. They can eat whatever the mature dogs do, again with the exception of the harder bones. Even there they can usually chew off bits of bigger bones.

The last puppy I brought home from rescue was 12 weeks old. His first meal in my home was the raw I feed the others. He never got kibble other than as some training treats. And it was pretty amazing how well he managed bones even with his milk teeth. He was eating chicken necks in very short order.

[dumbbird7]

I'm sure quite a few of us are vague and silly, Gentle Lake, but not you of course. I am well aware that packs of wild dogs do not roam the forests with primus stoves.  However I am sure the adults would regurgitate for the youngsters.  Raw dog food is the best, but the breeder had pups on Field & Trial kibble for working dogs.  I prefer to change gradually,  

[GentleLake]

 

1 hour ago, dumbbird7 said:

I'm sure quite a few of us are vague and silly...

I said the term "rich" used in this context is vague and silly, not any person, nor even any person using it. It's bandied about occasionally in the raw feeding community, but I've yet to see it used in any way that's useful. It's sort of like the word "natural" used in so much advertising. Everyone thinks they know what it means, but with no legal definition of the word it becomes meaningless, especially when it's used in association with products that are clearly not "natural."

So, regardless of your derision, I still contend that "rich" in this context is vague and silly, i.e. meaningless, especially because in all other ways you have chosen not to respond to any other point in my post.

I won't intrude into your conversation further. I wish you well.

[Rush Fan]

I'm not an expert on behavior or BCs in general. But just intuitively, I'll guess that the issue is that your pup knows the other dog in the house is being fed more favorably and wants the same chunks of beef and such his counterpart is given. I'm currently raising my first BC. She is 20 months now and has always been fed kibble. She never had a stage where she refrained from eating. Quite the opposite, she has always devoured every meal I've ever given her. I wish I had a solution to offer, but unfortunately I can't think of one. Maybe try feeding the older dog in a closed room away from the pup to calm the jealously? Not sure it would work but maybe worth a try. 

[dumbbird7]

Thanks Rush  Fan, the old boy always eats first, watched from very close quarters by Jack the lad!  And you may be right that he wants what Dodi has.   Sometimes having other dogs around concentrates the mind wonderfully.  He's got a little beef & tripe & chicken neck for breakfast, we'll see how fast that goes down.  Think kibble has had its day although It's very convenient, and relatively cheap, all previous collies have been BARF dogs. Dodi has beautiful teeth and gums from chomping chunks and wings 'n stuff.  His breath and long spey coat is sweet, no doggy smell.  

[Mandy1961]

14 hours ago, dumbbird7 said:

I'm sure quite a few of us are vague and silly, Gentle Lake, but not you of course. I am well aware that packs of wild dogs do not roam the forests with primus stoves.  However I am sure the adults would regurgitate for the youngsters.  Raw dog food is the best, but the breeder had pups on Field & Trial kibble for working dogs.  I prefer to change gradually,  

Harry is on the same Field &Trial kibble, which. I dont think I will change as it goes down well and buying the big 15kg bags last a long time, he does have fresh cooked chicken, raw beef or lightly boiled liver which he goes mad for. I suppose the liver could be served raw.