ShellyF Posted October 3, 2018 Report Share Posted October 3, 2018 We have made incredible progress with Merlin who is 10 days shy of being six months old. I have posted before about his love of instigating a game of chase by growling with his play bow and lunging without a nip. This isn’t a hard bite but still unacceptable in my opinion. We are now successfully getting him into his crate for a time out but his attempts to start a chase game in this manner is becoming much more frequent. The penny dropped today that he seems to view his time out as part of the game! We need a different strategy! Standing like a tree doesn’t work. Neither does ‘no’. If I tell him to lie down he will ‘eventually’ after a couple more bite attempts and me saying ‘lie down’ more than once but I don’t want to spoil his ‘lie down’ abilities by him thinking he can just take all the time in the world to do it! i have the time and patience to train him but I am sure I am doing something wrong that may be obvious to someone in this forum and i’m Just not seeing it. If we could anticipate when he was about to start a game I am confident we could pre empt the situation and train him to do an alternative action but when it’s out of the blue it’s too late as he’s in the play zone. Opinions appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jami74 Posted October 3, 2018 Report Share Posted October 3, 2018 45 minutes ago, ShellyF said: The penny dropped today that he seems to view his time out as part of the game! We need a different strategy! Oh they are so clever <3 We've taught a whistle recall, we only practice it occasionally, only when we know there's nothing more distracting and only when we have an extra special treat. Now if he sees me reach for the whistle he runs as fast as he can until he's just slightly outside of my comfort zone and then sits and watches me with his head cocked on one side waiting for me to blow the whistle. I can't think of anything to help your boy. Could you remove yourself from the room when he does it and leave him behind? Then he might realise that if he does it then you go away without him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShellyF Posted October 4, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2018 Not a bad idea but of course we are never in a position to leave the room when this happens. Open plan house so it’s a long walk with him in this mood haha! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rush Fan Posted October 4, 2018 Report Share Posted October 4, 2018 I'm fortunate in that Mancer doesn't like water. So I've been able to get away with using a squirt bottle to curb her undesired behavior. It's probably a long shot that this would work for you with Merlin, but it's the only thought that comes to mind at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShellyF Posted October 4, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2018 He loves water lol! as per my other thread we do have a toy pig that he doesn’t like but I want to crack this without walking around with a pig or water or any other physical aid if I can help it. I feel I must be giving off the wrong signal and/or not giving an appropriate correction/command. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jami74 Posted October 4, 2018 Report Share Posted October 4, 2018 I know he's quick but is there time to get a command in before he bites? We've been practicing moving Downs where I run around and then suddenly stop and say Down! in an enthusiastic fun voice, because it's a game not a threat (then mark, treat and release). It's a different game because when we run around he gets excited so the game always starts with a couple of walking calmly downs and building it up slowly only getting faster and more exciting when he is already dropping on command, and I find the faster the game gets the quicker he drops to the floor. When I want to finish the game he's still hyped up so I might throw a ball a couple of times and then ask for some quieter tricks (sit, roll over etc) before encouraging him to go off with a chew or toy. Could you teach a game like this? Maybe if he got into the routine of a game like that then you could insert between the run in and the lunge and then offer a shorter version of the routine eg happy praise/treat, throw the ball once and then ask for a quick couple of calm tricks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShellyF Posted October 4, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2018 This is a great idea! He’s good at ‘lie down’ as he has to do it for virtually everything. He of course ignores it once he is in ‘i’ll Bite, you chase’ mode but as you say if I teach him ‘lie down’ as a game too then that might work. Worth a try - Thanks so much! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brihop Posted October 4, 2018 Report Share Posted October 4, 2018 "lie down" as a game is a great idea. I have been training my 5 month old to "down" . He is pretty good in a controlled environment ( Kitchen, Garden ) but would really like to make it a solid command anywhere. Making it a game may just be the trick to re-enforce the concept for him. Like most things he is great when not distracted and to be honest I haven't really challenged him. ( NOTE TO SELF: you only get out what you put in. )Also working on "leave It" especially when out walking. He has a huge desire to eat clumps of fresh cut grass and anything he thinks might be tasty lol. Really have to watch him before he discovers anything and chomps on it. Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy1961 Posted October 4, 2018 Report Share Posted October 4, 2018 1 hour ago, brihop said: "lie down" as a game is a great idea. I have been training my 5 month old to "down" . He is pretty good in a controlled environment ( Kitchen, Garden ) but would really like to make it a solid command anywhere. Making it a game may just be the trick to re-enforce the concept for him. Like most things he is great when not distracted and to be honest I haven't really challenged him. ( NOTE TO SELF: you only get out what you put in. )Also working on "leave It" especially when out walking. He has a huge desire to eat clumps of fresh cut grass and anything he thinks might be tasty lol. Really have to watch him before he discovers anything and chomps on it. Brian Same with my puppy Harry who is nearly 5 months old. He is so quick at putting anything in his mouth and don't get me started on sniffing every bush, post and pavement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShellyF Posted October 4, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2018 Well Merlin cottoned on quickly but i’m Gonna have to do it without treats as now he’s biting so he can lie down and get a treat. Our BCs are too smart! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brihop Posted October 4, 2018 Report Share Posted October 4, 2018 1 hour ago, Mandy1961 said: Same with my puppy Harry who is nearly 5 months old. He is so quick at putting anything in his mouth and don't get me started on sniffing every bush, post and pavement. How are you dealing with the sniffing? I tend to let him sniff a little and then say "walk on". He usually walks on fine unless something has really got his nose then a gentle tug will get him to brake free. The problem is I have to watch every-time he stops to sniff to ensure it is not something he is going to eat. "leave it " works to an extent but I have to catch him before whatever it is goes in the mouth. Working my way through "Control Unleashed" (Puppy version) book at the moment but this will take a while and a great deal of effort. Sure it will all be worth it in the end. Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flora & Molly Posted October 4, 2018 Report Share Posted October 4, 2018 We taught our dogs to "go away". That might help. It just means I don't want to engage with the dog and he should move outside of my intimate space. It is a pain to teach in the beginning, because pups tend to make a game out of it. But it is so lovely when it finally clicks and they give up the antics. I taught it by walking into the dog until he moves, pointing away from me with a stretched arm and giving the command. When the dog moves away I go back to what I was doing. Of course the dog will try many times to move closer to you again, but if you stay calm and determined they will eventually get it. This might mean you have to do it a thousand times or have to continue for half an hour. This might work for the "nip and chase me" game, because you are not really chasing. But I can imagine he runs away so fast that you can't really send him away , but you might be able to stop him with a "go away" if he comes in for the second round. I hope this helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentleLake Posted October 4, 2018 Report Share Posted October 4, 2018 Don't have time ATM to read all the response or offer a lengthy reply, but one thing that comes to mind is doing a search here for an explanation of the "extinction burst." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D'Elle Posted October 4, 2018 Report Share Posted October 4, 2018 Agree with Gentle Lake....research "extinction burst". What is happening doesn't necessarily mean the crating is not .going to work. Don't use other techniques such as standing like a tree or saying No. ONLY put the dog, without comment, into the crate immediately and leave him there. Using other things is what is turning it into a game for him. Also, I would leave him in the crate longer, covered with a cloth. I would also put the crate into another room with the door closed, where he cannot hear what I am doing, so it is more isolated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy1961 Posted October 4, 2018 Report Share Posted October 4, 2018 2 hours ago, brihop said: How are you dealing with the sniffing? I tend to let him sniff a little and then say "walk on". He usually walks on fine unless something has really got his nose then a gentle tug will get him to brake free. The problem is I have to watch every-time he stops to sniff to ensure it is not something he is going to eat. "leave it " works to an extent but I have to catch him before whatever it is goes in the mouth. Working my way through "Control Unleashed" (Puppy version) book at the moment but this will take a while and a great deal of effort. Sure it will all be worth it in the end. Brian We do the same, but I say 'dirty' when he sniffs dog poo and horse poo (a particular favorite of his). I don't mind a little sniff but on some walks it seems he sniffs all the time and the walk takes twice as long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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