Grain free

[GentleLake]

Oh. If you're buying chicken (or pork) at the supermarket, check to be sure it has no added salt. The salt content should be no more than around 75-80 mg.(?) or so of sodium.

[Tommy Coyote]

ok.  Never would have thought of that.

I think there is a butcher shop close to me.  I will stop by there and see what I can do.

I have just a small freezer so I can't do anything but small amts.

[GentleLake]

You might consider looking into even a very small freezer if you decide to stick with this. A 3cf unit will fit in almost anyone's home, and they're not very expensive. Occasionally you can find them used, though the smallest ones are harder to find used. I know a college student who feeds raw whose chest freezer is in her bedroom in her small apartment.

You might also check Yahoo Groups for a raw feeding so-op in your area. Ppl in co-ops are often willing to split cases, which can be a real help.

[Smalahundur]

On 9/4/2018 at 6:07 PM, GentleLake said:

There is. And it's not the rocket science a lot of people would have you believe it is. If you follow the money a lot of the fear mongering originates with the kibble manufacturers who'll lose revenue.

Really? I never noticed any "fear mongering" from kibble manufacturers. 

[Journey]

1 minute ago, Smalahundur said:

Really? I never noticed any "fear mongering" from kibble manufacturers. 

I'd like to agree, however, what I've heard from some vets has me shaking my head. 

[GentleLake]

15 hours ago, Smalahundur said:

I never noticed any "fear mongering" from kibble manufacturers. 

Who do you think sponsors most of the feeding trials? Who sponsors the extremely limited coursework on nutrition required by veterinary colleges? And who's writing most of the sensationalized articles about the dangers of feeding fresh foods? (Hint: one recent one that got a lot of attention was about a study out of a university in Australia that was sponsored by a kibble manufacturer.)

And some of the vets who've educated themselves about pet foods and write about it (with little or no financial gain because they're not selling fresh foods) are saying that they're seeing huge pushbacks from kibble manufacturers against raw . . . all without any scientific proof to back up their claims, even though the vast majority their own feeding trials are only for a couple, three months.

If you don't want to feed raw, no one's going to make you. It's your choice. But it's not helpful to anyone to disregard where the negative stuff about it is coming from.

[Mark Billadeau]

Search the terms “raw feeding dogs” on scholar.google.com and the first hits are research articles assessing public health risks from human exposure to raw meats being fed to dogs and exposure to microorganisms from these raw meats in canine excrement.

These sound like fear mongering to me since handling raw meats when cooking for human meals has the same risk as feeding a dog raw meat and handling the backend of a dog exposes one to microorganisms no matter what the dog is fed.

[GentleLake]

And those studies rarely point out that most recalls of commercial foods are for salmonella or e. coli contamination, including risk for humans handling the products, or that the same microorganisms found in the stools of raw fed dogs are also found in the feces of kibble fed dogs.

And those articles almost always fail to mention that the biggest reason for the microorganisms in raw foods exists is because we can't seem to clean up their prevailance in human food sources.

 

[D'Elle]

About the salmonella question, I found this article informative.

Sometimes people are concerned that I feed my dogs and cat some raw meat, especially chicken, because they think they and/or I could contract salmonella. but I feed them exactly the same meat I would eat myself (if I ate chicken, which I don't), and I handle it the same very careful way I would if I were going to eat it. Salmonella in dogs is rare, and human beings contracting it from feeding properly handled raw meat is also very rare. Interestingly, the article states that it is also possible to contract salmonella from kibble.

Nothing is perfectly safe. If you just take reasonable precautions and maintain a robust immune system, the chance of having that occur is pretty slim.

[Lawgirl]

I do not usually feed raw, but do use raw chicken hearts as a topper for my dog's food a couple of times a week.  12 months ago I ended up with a bout of campylobacter poisoning.  Not salmonella, but also not fun.  Despite drinking bottle after bottle of gatorade/powerade and hydalyte, I ended up at emergency getting two litres (four and a quarter quarts) of saline intravenously four days later. They had to use an ultrasound machine to find a vein, as I was so dehydrated, my veins were collapsing. I actually fell asleep in the emergency department; I was that wiped out.

Best I can work out, I got the bacteria from the raw chicken hearts.  I was also on anti-reflux medications, which increases vulnerability.  I would wash my hands afterwards, but if you are vulnerable, it only takes a drop somewhere.

I now use gloves to handle the chicken hearts, and am careful not to touch anything else.

I should add, this is the second time in my life I have had a gastro problem, the first being while I was in Fiji at a resort on holiday, when half the resort came down with rotavirus.

[Luana]

I work for a biotech company and I am in contact for research purpose with massive concentrations of bacteria almost daily. these bugs are quite nasty,  Ecoli O157 has the potential to kill, and when I handle raw meat at home I have my set of "rules" just because you become a bit paranoid after a while ;-). however, dogs are much more resistant to bacteria than us, so by feeding raw I would more concerned of contamination for myself than the dog, and generally the larger risk comes from grinding the meat. I personally decided not to feed raw, but I gently boil the meat for few minutes, but I still feed fresh food. but I considered raw for a while and I see the validity in it.

[GentleLake]

On 9/12/2018 at 8:51 AM, Luana said:

...I gently boil the meat for few minutes, but I still feed fresh food...

Not to put too fine a point on it, but cooked, gently or not, is not fresh.

Still light-years better than processed food though.

[Smalahundur]

"Lightyears" better huh? So the data on difference in health and longevity of dogs fed  fed raw versus dogs on kibble must be very significant, and therefor very convincing.

[GentleLake]

For anyone contemplating feeding raw and is put off by how complicated it seems, this may be one of the best videos I've ever seen:

[GentleLake]

More on the subject of grain alternatives in dog food: https://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2018/09/10/fava-beans-inappropriate-ingredient-for-dogs.aspx?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=facebookpets_lead&utm_campaign=20180910_fava-beans-inappropriate-ingredient-for-dogs

[Lucy6151998]

 My Lucy lived to 19 on a grain free diet. She got diarrhea with any rice or diary at all so that was out. I don’t think corn is very healthy in large amounts. She ate about a cup of salmon meal and sweet potato based dog food daily supplemented with what the family ate. That meant she got salmon, tuna and halibut each about once a week. Occasionally other wild fish. Also grass fed buffalo at least once a week. Occasionally she got a little chicken and rarely a little lamb. She also got a little olive oil with her food a few times a week if there didn’t seem to be as much omega 3 in the meal as normal. May sound expensive but we don’t eat out (as the food isn’t as good as I prepare) unless we travel. Also no extra time, energy or worry about getting the dogs a good diet. No reason to make this hard. Eat a healthy diet yourself.  Find a reasonable healthy dog food as a base and supplement it with healthy wild fish and pasture raised meats (not corn fed crap) that you are eating yourself. I have a life,  I’m not going to spin my wheels running around town not understanding the extreme silliness of thinking it’s healthful for my dogs to give them crappy butcher scraps or contaminated egg shells.