Shame and lies

[dreizehn]

An intense topic title for an important topic? Not clickbait I promise 

So something that's been on my mind for, well, a long time is the concept of 'adopt don't shop'. Let me just explain: I think that everyone can agree that adopting a rescue dog does more good than buying from a breeder. I'm all for adoption. I definitely plan on doing it in the future.The thing is, I've encountered a bit of stigma when it comes to the 'adopt don't shop' movement... meaning that people I know have known to be quite strong in their ideas against getting a dog from a breeder

If you've seen my first post you'll know I'm about to get a border collie puppy (in about 3 weeks) from a breeder in my province. I won't lie and say that the dog is from a AKC (god forbid) or ABCA/CBCA breeder. His parents are both border collies, the father is really good looking, but mum i think is just a family dog. Actually I don't really know if they're registered, but it doesn't really matter right now (and I won't be doing any professional competing with him so it won't really matter in the future)

So my question I guess is have any of you dealt with shame when it comes to having a purebred dog? I'm worried that I'll have to justify myself to my friends/acquaintances/people on the street when they judge me for 'shopping' not 'adopting'. And then comes the lies part... should I lie and say it was an unplanned puppy and that I regret getting him and etc? Obviously I'd rather not lie but I'm not sure! ahh... do any of you have experience with this?

The truth is I love border collies and have basically always wanted one and I love that he's blue merle and I'm so excited. But still, the shame.

[Journey]

No. No shame. Your life, your money, your dog. Have fun, enjoy him, hang on for  the ride! Don't let anyone even try to steal your joy.  However, isn't it some special rule that you have to post new puppy pictures?

[GentleLake]

It's your choice whether to buy or rescue. I don't see how lying about it is going to benefit you, your dog or anyone else.

 

 

 

[NW_MONTANA_BC]

Get the dog you want. You will never be happy until you do. As Journey said, your money, your dog. Theres no shame getting the dog you want. The heck with what everybody else thinks.

[ShellyF]

We’ve rescued 3 dogs so far but this time I wanted a chance at a therapy dog (so training from a pup) and we also have an active local rescue where pups that aren’t problem dogs are snapped up quickly. We are no longer in a position to help problem dogs. So a purebred pup it was and I continue to support local rescue work in ways that I can. If you have carefully thought it all through then be confident in your decision. 

[GentleLake]

Just want to say, @ShellyF, that my very excellent border collie therapy dog who's been working over 10 1/2 years now was an adult rescue of approximately 1 1/2-2 years old.

The 2 puppies I adopted turned out not to be at all suited for therapy work. And it wasn't for any lack of socialization or training. I will say that neither was well bred. One turned out to be a lurcher (herding [probably border collie] x sighthound mix) and the other from an unsupervised Amish farm breeding.

I'm looking for another dog now who can continue Bodhi's work when he retires, but I'll probably be looking for another adult rescue who's temperament is settled and what I'm looking for.

[ShellyF]

Fair point and I do know many rescues that make great therapy dogs. I guess I should have been more specific. I would like to do sheepdog ball herding demos and other neat things for the seniors homes and I just felt I would have more chance training a puppy. We shall see haha! 

[GentleLake]

Sheepdog ball herding?

 

[ShellyF]

I know eh! Work in progress and something fun for the seniors to see haha

[dreizehn]

14 hours ago, Journey said:

No. No shame. Your life, your money, your dog. Have fun, enjoy him, hang on for  the ride! Don't let anyone even try to steal your joy.  However, isn't it some special rule that you have to post new puppy pictures?

I made a thread a couple days ago! There’s a couple pics there! He’s only 6 weeks old right now hehehe  

 

and thanks for all the replies, I guess I just needed to hear someone else say it! I’m so so so excited for him! 

[CptJack]

Your money, your life, your dog.  Find out who has the dog you want and go there and get it.

My most recent bought dog?  Farm dog.  Bred to herd goats and work some cattle.  No health testing.  No titles of any sort.   Not even a purebred.  No guilt, shame or regret, either.   I went to the people who were producing what I wanted, in a way that I didn't have any moral conflict or hesitation about, met some of their dogs, watched them and got a puppy from them. 

And I got, yeah, EXACTLY what I wanted. 

A high energy, high stamina, intelligent, highly stable, multi-purpose, all around, really good dog.   Killer sports dog,  RIDICULOUSLY tolerant and friendly of animals, children, and people without being particularly drawn to them, wonderful handler focus and biddability.  His only 'flaw' is that he's loud as blazes as I expected that going in so no big deal. 

 

Do people sometimes side-eye me when I tell them where he came from? Yes.  Do they side eye more when they realize he was a mutt that was bred on purpose? Oh heck yeah.  But I've found as long as I don't start off defensive they leave it alone and go on with their life - and since I'm not even remotely defensive about it, it works out just fine.

 

[D'Elle]

I agree with all of the above.

Get the dog you want and don't ever justify yourself to others. My approach would be to tell the whole truth about the dog and his or her origins, and if anyone wanted me to justify it I would simply discontinue the conversation. I don't have to justify where I live, what I grow on my property, how I dress,  how I make money or anything else I choose for my life. I don't justify to people how or why I train my dogs, or where they came from or who they are. 

I hope your new puppy turns out to be exactly who you want. 

[Baderpadordercollie]

I have had people tell me I am selfish for getting my dog from a breeder. I see judgemental and self righteous hashtags every single day.

#adoptdontshop, translation, "you are to get a dog from a shelter, and you are not to get a dog from a breeder, and if you do, then I am judging you. And BTW, look how great I am for 'rescuing' my dog."

#dontbreedorbuywhileshelterdogsdie, translation, "if you get a dog from a breeder, you are responsible for all the dogs that get put in shelters... that you did not put there... that ethical breeders do not put there... but no matter, it's still your fault. Also, look how great I am for 'rescuing' my dog."

I don't feel guilty for getting the dog I wanted, the dog that's right for me. The reason the shaming and hashtag slinging bothers me is that it makes other people feel guilty. I think it's sad that people who educated themselves about their breed, spent lots of time looking for an ethical breeder, and likely spent a lot of money for the right dog, and then continue on to be responsible and dedicated dog owners, are thrown into the same category as those who know nothing about dogs and buy from a puppy mill only to later dump the dog in a shelter because they "just don't have time" for it. The former person is not the problem. The latter person is. "Rescue" dogs are in, they're trendy, and I think that's great. But what I hate is that adopting from a breeder has become taboo. It's frustrating for me to see people feeling hurt and ashamed for getting the right dog for them.

Unfortunately, when you are dealing with breeder shamers, they will not see sense and you can't make them. They love to be up on their high horses of "moral superiority" and you cannot knock them down. Don't give them the satisfaction of getting a response from you. They like to argue and that is what they want.

You don't need to feel guilty and you don't have to justify where you're getting your dog. If this is what's right for you, then do it and do it proudly. I wish you and your puppy all the best.

[GentleLake]

9 hours ago, ShellyF said:

I know eh! Work in progress and something fun for the seniors to see haha

My confusion is about what "sheepdog ball herding" is.

Can a dog "herd" a ball, i.e. an inanimate object?

Does a sheepdog do whatever this is differently than another type of dog?

If it's a dog moving a ball around at a handler's direction, then it sounds like game already has a name or two -- treibball or push ball, which a dog doesn't have to be a sheepdog to do. I guess some people do call it "herding ball," but that's a misappropriation of the word "herding" that I think would make Mr. McCaig's head explode.

 

[CptJack]

I actually did some treibball with Kylie.  She loved it.  ...I did not, but it is fun to watch. 

 

Linguistic questions aside

[GentleLake]

And since Kylie isn't a sheepdog, it kinda supports my point.

[ShellyF]

I’m not over thinking the semantics. It’s about putting a little show on for seniors that looks as much like the real thing as possible. A real sheepdog is necessary IMHO and balls that can be imagined as sheep. I have a number of ideas as to how I can achieve this. There are plenty of therapy dogs for seniors to stroke but the ‘entertainment’ put on for them (entertainment also being essential therapy) is very limited. 

[AnyaDogz]

We have always rescued until we bought Orion (our lab) from a breeder. We wanted the experience from start to finish. A year after buying Orion, we rescued Jack. Haven't had a single person say a thing about buying Orion, but, meh, my response if someone did would get me banned from this board.

In the future we will probably buy from a breeder again, as we would like a fox terrier and they are an odd enough breed in this area to make it nearly impossible to find one in a shelter. Or we may rescue again, who knows what the future holds.

People can go pound sand if they don't like your personal decisions. As long as it has no negative impact on their lives it is none of their business. Live and let live.

[urge to herd]

40 minutes ago, ShellyF said:

I’m not over thinking the semantics. It’s about putting a little show on for seniors that looks as much like the real thing as possible. A real sheepdog is necessary IMHO and balls that can be imagined as sheep.

How about border collie soccer? Soccer is much closer to what dogs do when they're playing treiball. You could even set up a 'goal post' and have the 'fans' cheer when the dog 'scores', so more involvement for your audience.

If your team includes other breeds, it could be canine soccer.

Ruth & Gibbs

Edited August 23, 2018 by urge to herd

[ShellyF]

Lol! Great ideas

[GentleLake]

I like border collie soccer better too. For one thing there's no "sheepdog" thing to get semantic about. While I understand that some breeds are referred to as sheepdogs whether they're trained for the work or not, to me a sheepdog is a dog trained to work sheep. I used to have sheepdogs. I still have border collies and I've never once referred to my more recent ones acquired since I no longer have or work sheep as sheepdogs.

Or just doggy soccer. Then anyone can play.

[CptJack]

4 hours ago, GentleLake said:

And since Kylie isn't a sheepdog, it kinda supports my point.

 

Kylie's about as much a sheepdog as she is a sheep, that's for sure.   She just likes pushing things bigger than her around  .  As long as they're inanimate (she got chased by a deer once, the trauma is real. LOL.

[Baderpadordercollie]

I've heard a lot of people refer to BCs as Sheepdogs, as the name of the breed. Sort of like how Australian Cattle Dogs are often called Heelers, BCs are sometimes called Sheepdogs whether they actually herd sheep or not. If somebody says "is she a Sheepdog?" I will say "yes," because I know they probably mean Border Collie and I don't care to correct them. To herd sheep is the original purpose of the breed so they're not technically incorrect. 

[D'Elle]

Different semantics are comfortable for different people. When I am asked if my dog is a sheepdog, I reply that he or she is a border collie.

To me, the word sheepdog, unless it is actually referring to a dog trained to move sheep, refers to an Old English Sheepdog, because that is the name of the breed.  I wouldn't refer to my border collies as sheepdogs. But there's really no harm in doing so if you want to. Kinda like calling a pointer a hunting dog, even if he has never been on a hunt.

[CptJack]

Yeah, I hear sheepdog and I think the Old English Sheepdogs, pretty much exclusively.  When people ask me what *Molly* is, I just say border collie, sometimes with a tongue in cheek caveat that she's an ugly one.   When people ask about Kiran I tell them his parents were stock dogs.  Or just shrug and say mutt, but that's not relevant.