Walk on tempo

[Maja]

The video attached is mostly for entertainment purposes, or an excuse to show Darinka work, or the question is an excuse to place the video, take your pick

My question is whether you have some tricks for imposing the tempo on a dog in "walk on".  I taught Bonnie different gears on walk on with no problem at all. But with Darinka, things are different , and I have a limited success, and often Darine goes as far as doing a lie down from which easy to get her up it is not! as Yoda  would say.  

With Bonnie, I used the voice, and it was a piece of cake (basically slow 'waaalk' means walk slow, and quick 'walk-walk' walk quickly. With Darine the same thing didn't   work, she seems to be drawn into the speed of the sheep, which means that if the sheep go slowly, she does too.  

Any suggestions?  

 

 

 

 

[GentleLake]

Totally no help with your question, but I love the way the other ewe comes to check out the lamb when the mother/lamb pair get to the flock.

[Maja]

5 minutes ago, GentleLake said:

Totally no help with your question, but I love the way the other ewe comes to check out the lamb when the mother/lamb pair get to the flock.

Yes, I liked that too  , these two ewes are friends.  I wanted the tiny lamb to stay in the sheep barn another day, but the ewe and her buddy kept bleating to each other, so I took the mother and the lamb to the pasture.  

[denice]

I find dogs with lots of feel adjust to the sheep themselves.  My Meg is "careful'" with ewes and lambs especially so with a single pair as in the video.  Meg shows much more patience than I most of the time.  I do think her way is better, slow and steady it goes smoothly, no stress.  Watching your dog I see the same things Meg does.  When the ewe turns and looks she either turns her head/eye away or she lies down, at times she does both. She is taking pressure off.  I have learned she is just telling the ewe " I am simply here doing my job, move off nice and all will be fine.  We are not in a rush, take your time, not going to bother your lamb."  My girl will get up when I ask but not necessarily walk a pair faster than she deems appropriate.  I think they know if they hurry a ewe with a lamb things may not go well.

All my dogs push more if - large group of sheep or when no young lambs are in the group.  I didn't think she was moving slower than the situation called for.  Every time the ewe was ready to move she was ready to guide her.  I found it interesting she holds her tail to one side  guess I am mostly in front moving pairs so I don't see tails all that often.  Your girl was ready to catch her if she decided the ewe didn't want to go through the gate.

I can speed up or slow down dogs on their walk.  I start when they are fetching during training.  Ask for a slow with a w a l k or a correction then a walk - ah walk.  Speed up I use a little sshh or click like for a horse to speed up, pat my leg ect.  If I get speed control on the fetch it is easier to transfer elsewhere.

[Maja]

44 minutes ago, denice said:

I find dogs with lots of feel adjust to the sheep themselves.  My Meg is "careful'" with ewes and lambs especially so with a single pair as in the video.  Meg shows much more patience than I most of the time.  I do think her way is better, slow and steady it goes smoothly, no stress.  Watching your dog I see the same things Meg does.  When the ewe turns and looks she either turns her head/eye away or she lies down, at times she does both. She is taking pressure off.  I have learned she is just telling the ewe " I am simply here doing my job, move off nice and all will be fine.  We are not in a rush, take your time, not going to bother your lamb."  My girl will get up when I ask but not necessarily walk a pair faster than she deems appropriate.  I think they know if they hurry a ewe with a lamb things may not go well.

All my dogs push more if - large group of sheep or when no young lambs are in the group.  I didn't think she was moving slower than the situation called for.  Every time the ewe was ready to move she was ready to guide her.  I found it interesting she holds her tail to one side  guess I am mostly in front moving pairs so I don't see tails all that often.  Your girl was ready to catch her if she decided the ewe didn't want to go through the gate.

I can speed up or slow down dogs on their walk.  I start when they are fetching during training.  Ask for a slow with a w a l k or a correction then a walk - ah walk.  Speed up I use a little sshh or click like for a horse to speed up, pat my leg ect.  If I get speed control on the fetch it is easier to transfer elsewhere.

I agree with you, Denice 100%.  It was so nice of her to do this nice and slow all the way, this is completely natural to her, and the lamb is so tiny I wanted it to go slow. The actual problem shows a bit when she is already in the fenced area. I had a bit of issue with her work there her distance is quite a bit from the sheep but she lies down because some sheep in the flock turn their heads towards her.  I have to raise my voice for her to listen and get up after repetitions.  I will try more ways to encourage her on the fetch as you say then, thank you.  There is no problem to slow her down, ever.  Just speeding up and keeping her standing or making her stand up. 

Yes, her tail is funny, I think it's the equivalent to when some folks stick their tongue out to the side.  

[Smalahundur]

Your video was very entertaining indeed Maja. Lovely dog, Darinka.

I am working on similar issues with my new(ish) dog Seimur. He will drop reglulary when walking on, no mattter what kind ( fetching not so much because my current training group is getting pretty dogged, being in use for about 4 months now, so they move quickly in my direction when fetched). He'll drop when the pressure builds, nearing sheep on the drive or wearing. Not very difficultto get him on his feet again, but usually does need acommand ( or several) for it.

He is pretty young ( 14 months, got him at 8), and I think we will get this resolved when we are getting a better handle on this elusive "pace" thing...

[Maja]

14 months are definitely a good prospect for maturing into a better walk-on.  Darine on the other hand, she's got the looks of a powerful dog, but  she is not very strong. Which is kind of funny because Bonnie always looked sweet  and gentle, but as Derek says, the sheep are the ultimate judge of the dog, and it was Bonnie who had the power to move anything, not Darine, and it was Bonnie who knew how to deliver a stone cold, deliberate grip when needed, and it was very rarely needed. Darine is made nervous by pressure, but since this is stock work, it can be put to good use as seen in the vid. The interesting thing is  that Bonnie was able to drive really mean ewes of a different breed than skudde,  without any violence on either side them. Skudde in the video are very nice sheep, not aggressive.  And when this lamb-infested bedlam needs to be moved a bit more efficiently, I take Bonnie ona leash and I hang back with Bonnie providing the power, and Darine the direction for the flock.  

The funny thing is that just about everybody I've met got Bonnie and Darine completely wrong when it comes to power and inner calm.  Darine likes to move slowly,  but inside there is this tension.  And that's why in a flock with lambs I do not insist on smarter pace, because it may and up with a 'pow!'