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Does the dog need training or the human?


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I have a brother who is, well, a goofball. Likes to tease my dog and egg her on. I've probably been too lax with him but he's, you know the type... anything that could possibly be criticism he finds offensive because he is NEVER wrong. (So he thinks. ;) ) Anyway, it's really only him that Brèagha has a problem with on occasion. It's usually something like him jumping around, or repeatedly snapping his fingers, or waving his arms around or something nonsensical like that. (Yes he is an adult. Don't even ask LOL.) You know, out of the ordinary things that i don't usually do and people in general don't really do. Her reaction is usually to start barking, and jumping around herself, and generally get excited. (Don't worry, I KNOW it's not herding behavior, let's not even go there.) It usually goes like this: he does something odd, she runs over to him, all high alert and "watcha doin'?" Then he leans over her or moves towards her and does it all the more to egg her on, she starts barking, and I say something like "oh c'mon, cut it out" or "can you stop that please," (because, ya know, it's loud and annoying,) and he gets miffed and tells me it's my fault and I should train her not to do that. And denies that he was egging her on. Maybe he doesn't realize he is doing it, but I see it. 

To me it seems like he's teasing the dog, and then when I make it clear that it annoys me, pinning the blame on me and her. Maybe what he was doing wasn't directed at her at first, but it looks to me like once he sees that he can get a reaction, he does start directing it at her to see what she'll do. 

I don't generally engage in odd and nonsensical movements and noises, (just not who I am,) and neither does anyone else in my family, or my friends, so it's not a problem with anyone but him. It seems to me like if someone realizes that what they are doing is causing a dog to bark, a mature adult should stop rather than encouraging it, even if he does think it's funny? I mean, we are family but it's not his dog...

Come to think of it, my grandfather is like that. He's a tease, the animals know it, and he can get a reaction out of them like no one else. My brother is the same kind of person.

But tell me, am I completely wrong? Have I been lax in my training, should she tolerate all manner of odd behavior? Is it unacceptable and rude of her to bark and get excited over things like this? Is it wrong of me not to teach her to ignore things like that? Or should people just not behave like that around dogs? 

Just one note: she is a very sound sensitive dog. Her initial reaction to any odd sound she's never heard is "WOOWOOWOO," but she will stop when I ask her to. She hates motercycles with a passion. She shakes for probably 10 minutes if someone slams the door really hard. Just a sensitive dog in general. Doesn't take much to get her amped up, but doesn't take her long to settle down either. 

Sorry, that was a lot of background but I wanted things to be clear. 

Can I just say that my brother is a great guy and I love him dearly? ;)

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I mean, I suppose if you really wanted you could teach your dog not to bark at that, but well.  I wouldn't bother.  Because it's a weird circumstance and he'd just find something else to do to make her bark. 

 

And frankly it's a dog.  Them barking at weird stuff is pretty much what they do.


(That said, both my (adult) children and husband play - and for them it is play - with the dogs like this.  It gets loud, but it doesn't *bother* me either, because dogs and humans are all having fun.  If my dog were distressed and upset about it, I'd be having WORDS.)

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4 hours ago, Baderpadordercollie said:

 It's usually something like him jumping around, or repeatedly snapping his fingers, or waving his arms around or something nonsensical like that. (Yes he is an adult. Don't even ask LOL.) You know, out of the ordinary things that i don't usually do and people in general don't really do.

Maybe he doesn't realize he is doing it, but I see it. 

My son is/was similar. Would wait until the puppy had just settled down and then he'd pick up a tennis ball and start juggling it, or find something that just needed waving around, or even when playing nicely with the puppy suddenly start using jerky movements. He'd then be really surprised that the puppy was jumping and snapping at him and couldn't understand why. Thankfully both him and the puppy are young enough that we've pretty much worked through it, but I had a few moments of disbelief that there was a dog in the house and he was doing that. Non-animal peoples body language often seem a bit surprising around animals.

Can you turn it into a game that they could play together? Like 'Here, she likes it if you throw this', maybe it'll channel both of their energies into something that you feel more comfortable with.

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8 hours ago, CptJack said:

And frankly it's a dog.  Them barking at weird stuff is pretty much what they do.

Ah, okay. That is what I thought. It's just that when somebody tells me I'm doing something "wrong" with my dog, I take it into consideration because I want to do my best with her. Yeah, she doesn't seem distressed, but she does get kind of overstimulated, and and it usually causes the cats to flee from the room. 

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4 hours ago, jami74 said:

My son is/was similar. Would wait until the puppy had just settled down and then he'd pick up a tennis ball and start juggling it, or find something that just needed waving around, 

LOL yes, same thing. When all is quiet, time to get things riled up. 

4 hours ago, jami74 said:

Can you turn it into a game that they could play together? Like 'Here, she likes it if you throw this', maybe it'll channel both of their energies into something that you feel more comfortable with.

I maybe could?

I guess, in my long winded way, my main question was whether I should be teaching her not to get hyped up over such things or whether that's normal behavior that doesn't really need to be dealt with. 

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I dunno. Maybe I should stay out of this because I have a completely different reaction.

My take on it is that it's your brother who needs to be trained. . . . to be respectful of you, your dog and the rules of your home. I'd be pretty pissed if someone were doing that to my dog. I don't think overstimulated dogs are a good thing. And I don't allow other people to tease my dogs no matter who they are.

JMO, of course.

 

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50 minutes ago, GentleLake said:

My take on it is that it's your brother who needs to be trained. . . . to be respectful of you, your dog and the rules of your home. I'd be pretty pissed if someone were doing that to my dog. I don't think overstimulated dogs are a good thing. And I don't allow other people to tease my dogs no matter who they are.

JMO, of course.

 

It doesn't anger me, it's just kind of annoying. But that was sort of my initial thought, was that it's teasing, and I don't really like getting her hyped up unless I'm going to be channeling that into something, like agility for example. And that rather than me training her to ignore it, he should just knock it off. That said, she doesn't seem upset, and she likes him a lot, honest, she tries to worm her way into his lap quite often. And succeeds. But she does get very excited about the teasing and it's more excitement and noise than I like to have in the house. But since I was told my training of the dog is apparently not up to snuff, that's why I ask. I guess he just doesn't like being told off by his "little sister." ; ) 

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My reaction is akin to Gentle Lake's. I call this teasing the dog, and I do not ever tolerate teasing of my dog.

I would find a way to put a stop to it if it were happening to my dog. Overall, even if the dog is not annoyed by it and neither are you, especially, it is not a good thing for the dog. Your dog, your rules. If you don't want this going on then put an end to it.

Just by the way, I am impressed by your sincerity in wanting to do all the right things for this dog.

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1 hour ago, D'Elle said:

 

                                                                                                                               Your dog, your rules. 

What D'Elle said is actually a basic rule in my whole life. 

My long term concern (and I'm very, very good at seeing every thing that could go wrong) is that Brother agitates the dog on a day when the dog is not feeling well. Something physical that hasn't been noticed yet, something environmental that seems like nothing at all to you but is worrying to the dog, too much stimulation from a busy day the day before, what have you. We all have 'off' days, and dogs are no different. 

I may be hypersensitive to things like this. Your girl might be solid as a rock in her basic personality and this is just not an issue. And still ~ Your House, Your Rules.

Family stuff is difficult to wade through, I know that. You are NOT being unreasonable. Your brother is. Your dog is YOUR property AND your responsibility. Your brother is not going to understand this, ever. If your pup ever bites your bro, you're going to be legally liable. 

Your brother is dismissive of your concerns about your own property, and blames you for the results of his actions. Perhaps you could simply say to your dog, 'time for a break' when your brother starts with the ramping up, and put her away in another room. Brother will fuss and fume and complain about you being unreasonable, your response is 'I'm training her to calm down when I want her to.' Very simple. He will likely continue to complain. You get to calmly restated your stance. Do your best to not engage with him beyond this statement.

It's very possible he likes getting things stirred up in general. If he can't get a rise out of you, you're taking the fun out of it for him. And he will bring it up over and over again. Can you tell I grew up in a similar situation? ;)  Stick to your basic statement. 

Good luck, 

Ruth & Gibbs

 

 

 

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17 minutes ago, urge to herd said:

If he can't get a rise out of you, you're taking the fun out of it for him.

I know that kind of interaction all too well myself. My father's one who likes to rile things up and pick fights. It was a major source of discomfort for me my entire life . . . until the day I decided I just wasn't going to participate in it anymore. And told him so. I saw him visibly deflate. He's only tried it a time or two since then. As Ruth said, I took all the fun out of it for him.

I wish you all the best in sorting out this difficult dynamic. You and your dog deserve to be comfortable in your own skins. And I really doubt the dog is when she's that amped up. Your brother needs to grow up a bit and not get his jollies by annoying and teasing others. You can love your brother but it doesn't mean you have to accept his behavior.

Again, JMO.

 

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Urge To Herd

Just for the record, she's a big softie and I can't see her biting someone. But I do realize that like any dog, she's capable of it. Also it's not really mean spirited on the part of my brother; he just thinks it's funny and I'm being unreasonable. And that he can do no wrong, LOL. Sometimes I wish I had that kind of confidence. But without the ego part. ;)

As I'm sure you know, "your dog your rules" can be difficult when it comes to family. Because she's "part of the family" in a way, it's almost like they feel she's kind of their dog too, if you know what I mean. But I agree, I guess there are times when I should just say no.

Thanks for the advice.

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Good luck, Bader. I've had the experience of 'no, s/he would never bite anyone' only to be proved wrong. In a very small way, luckily. 

And family does tend to not treat each other very well at times. We do take each other for granted, and think we can get away with just about anything! I've been on the offending side myself, a time or two. 

IMO, it does help a lot to focus on the dog in terms of your own actions. That's why I recommended any intervention be 'about the dog' instead of your brother's actions. Still the same result. your dog gets a chance to calm down.

Ruth & Gibbs

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I agree with Ruth, above. Best with your brother in the moment to make it about the dog and what you feel is best for her.

And this kind of thing is not best for her. Even if she's the kind who would never bite, it is still not good for her to be teased. Even if no harm is meant, it is still not good for her to be teased. Teasing is simply not nice, and not good for the recipient. And I, too, have been the recipient of teasing. The person doing it thinks it is all in fun and means no harm, perhaps,, but the negative effects tend to accumulate. Best to put a stop to it.

I have been accused, variously, of being too strict, rigid, unkind, a spoil sport, the fun police, and a big meanie along with other less polite things, when I have put my foot down about what gets done to or around my dog. I don't give a rip. My dogs will be handled the way that I say. I don't have rules for my dogs without a reason, and people who refuse to respect me and my wishes in that regard do not get to be around my dogs any more. 

In a family situation if you are all in one house it is very difficult. Maybe you could call a family meeting, and let everyone know that you request that the others give you the respect to abide by what you feel is best for YOUR dog. Let them all know, not just your brother, that you are taking full responsibility for the dog and therefore your wishes as to how she is treated should be respected. I have no idea if this is even feasible; it is in some families and not in others. 

Best of luck.

PS. I know what you mean, exactly, about wanting to give back to her the good that she gives to you. I have always felt that they give me more than I could ever repay.

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Bader, do you live on your own? If you're part of a family household, there's more stress involved, I imagine. In your own home, ooooo, that is a different story.

Most emphatically, your house, your dog, your rules. Your bro might be used to getting his own way by throwing these verbal 'temper tantrums'. It's also a kind of bullying ~ I'm gonna call you names till I get my way!

You could think of it as doing him a kindness, (in a longer term sort of way) by teaching him about reasonable limits and good manners.  Not an easy task, but worthwhile.

Ruth & Gibbs

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