Our puppy is a nutter at classes :(

[jami74]

About 17-18 weeks old.

He's lovely at home. Sleeps in his crate from 10pm to 7am, goes in with no complaints and doesn't whine, haven't had an accident inside for at least a month, spends quite a bit of time playing outside independently but also loves playing ball, having snuggles, doing 'tricks' (sit, down, paw, touch, roll over), does not beg when we are eating, can be left at home (in crate with Kong) for a couple of hours if necessary, does not mind thunder or fireworks, has stopped running off with socks/shoes/other small items he shouldn't have.

Outside; likes to pull on the lead, we're working on it and I'm not too worried. Will bark and lunge at passing traffic/bikes/kids if they catch him by surprise so I'm being hyper alert and asking for a down if I suspect something is coming that he'll want to react to so we can watch it together. If he's down he can be calm about things, he can't quite manage it if we are moving but I think we're going in the right direction. I take him to fairly busy places and we sit calmly together and watch everything going on around us.

Off lead he has okay recall for his age and keeps an eye on us, again I'm hyper alert and if I suspect anything too distracting is coming along he goes back on the lead until it's passed. He meets and greets other dogs okay and is learning which dogs play and which ones don't. He gets excited meeting new people, we are working on not jumping up at strangers. We all love our off lead walks and he's lovely and calm afterwards.

We've been doing two puppy classes with him, same company and trainers but different locations. He finds them very stimulating but one class he manages well, has fairly good focus and it feels like we are making progress. He is bouncy and energetic compared to the other (non-collie) puppies who all look like they move in slow motion compared to him,  but we manage and he quickly picks up what he's meant to do. He really enjoys rapid fire commands and things which require concentration but doesn't enjoy when he's meant to settle down and rest. The other class is a complete nightmare, it's at a time where he'd usually be a bit crazy at home and to get there we have to walk along a busy road with cars mounting the pavement and lots of people so he's over-the-top before we even start. While he will scoff treats for the first half he's not really interested in them and in the second half there's not really any treat which will tempt him to calm down and focus, he'll bounce, try to get to the other puppies, bark, roll around trying to chew his lead. I try to get him to focus on me using treats and toys but he gets that crazed look in his eye and goes deaf, I take him out mid class for a break but he's eager to get back inside, I try holding him to me to calm him but he struggles free. It's the sort of behaviour that when it happens at home he gets put to bed and goes to sleep, real over stimulated/tired/tantrum behaviour. When we are there I feel like the best thing would be to scoop him up and take him home, but instead we stay and as he gets worse I get more embarrassed.

This set of classes have finished now, but we'd like to progress onto the next ones. Our hope was to do all sorts of classes with him as he gets older (we were going to have a go at as many different things as we could) but I'm just not sure there's any point going to a class if I'm going to spend the whole time trying to physically restrain him and persuade him to focus on me and I'm not sure they'd want us if he's going to be distracting to the other dogs. Things that he can do nicely in real life he can't do at the classes.

I'm sorry this is so long but I'd really like to hear peoples opinions. Is there anything I can do outside of classes that will help him to cope in classes?

[urge to herd]

Not having raised a puppy, this reply may not be helpful. To make sure I understand ~ you're taking him to two different classes a week? Are they both at the same time of day? What time of day are they? What else goes on the 'crazy' day?

Just from reading your post I'd say he's waaaay over stimulated at the second class. Whether it's a combination of triggers that put him over the edge, or he just can't take a second class and once a week is plenty for him, I'd say give him a break and only do one class a week for a while..

Ruth & Gibbs

[GentleLake]

1 hour ago, jami74 said:

does not mind thunder or fireworks

In my experience noise phobia may not develop until the dog's about 2 years old. It's happened that way for a couple of my dogs.

As for the classes, I agree with Ruth about trying to figure out what's different about the 2. If it's just the time of day, then maybe it's just a matter of avoiding that time frame for a while.

[Lawgirl]

Given that he starts out overstimulated before the second class, I would say that you are better off not going to that class.  He would not be learning well in that class anyway.  This will not be a permanent thing.  As he gets older, he will cope with stimulation better, and calm down better. 

Give him time and continue your work with familiarisation to sounds, noise and movement.  I agree to try and avoid classes at times he usually has the zoomies.

He can obviously learn well in class, since he does well in the other.  I would not give up in classes, just maybe give him more time as he is only still a little puppy.

[Pageturner]

We found a couple of things helped with Finley when he was young.   1) he needed more time to mature and focus, we did short training at home, an hour in a class fried his brain  and 2) he had to be older yet before we could do classes two times a week,  he was having no part of a 2nd class.      Now at 3 and working on agility, short sessions are still key for him.....too many repetitions and he looks at you like "you do it and I'll watch!".

[jami74]

8 hours ago, urge to herd said:

Not having raised a puppy, this reply may not be helpful. To make sure I understand ~ you're taking him to two different classes a week? Are they both at the same time of day? What time of day are they? What else goes on the 'crazy' day?

Yes two different classes a week (two eager teenagers, only one puppy ), and yes, the crazy day one happens at Zoomies Hour, the other one happens mid afternoon after he's been sleeping off his lunch. We've tried putting him to bed for an hour before the crazy day one but he's not always ready to sleep at that time.

8 hours ago, urge to herd said:

Just from reading your post I'd say he's waaaay over stimulated at the second class. Whether it's a combination of triggers that put him over the edge, or he just can't take a second class and once a week is plenty for him, I'd say give him a break and only do one class a week for a while..

Yep, this is it exactly. It seems once we've reached that over the edge point there is no quick and easy way to bring him back.

7 hours ago, GentleLake said:

In my experience noise phobia may not develop until the dog's about 2 years old. It's happened that way for a couple of my dogs.

Ooh I didn't realise that! But it actually makes sense now you've said it, I've heard people say "My dog was fine until....and then suddenly...." Very useful to know, wonder if it's something that can be headed off with frequent low level exposure. Wonder if their hearing or something gets more refined as they get older. I'll make sure not to take anything for granted.

7 hours ago, Lawgirl said:

This will not be a permanent thing.  As he gets older, he will cope with stimulation better, and calm down better. 

 I would not give up in classes, just maybe give him more time as he is only still a little puppy.

That sounds positive, thank-you. And I can do giving him more time. In some ways he seems more advanced than some of the other puppies, learning new tricks almost the first time he's shown, but he's excitement levels indicate his lack of puppyness.

7 hours ago, Pageturner said:

We found a couple of things helped with Finley when he was young.   1) he needed more time to mature and focus, we did short training at home, an hour in a class fried his brain  and 2) he had to be older yet before we could do classes two times a week,  he was having no part of a 2nd class.      Now at 3 and working on agility, short sessions are still key for him.....too many repetitions and he looks at you like "you do it and I'll watch!".

Yes! It fries his brain! That's a great way to describe what happens.

You are all right, he needs more time. I was worried that if we stopped doing classes then we'd never get past being hyper and unfocussed and he'd never learn to cope, but from reading all your posts it sounds like he just needs more time to mature. And thinking about it that time could be so much better spent. So we'll wait before signing up for any more classes and when we do we'll choose our location and time of day carefully.

Thank-you X

[D'Elle]

17 hours ago, jami74 said:

When we are there I feel like the best thing would be to scoop him up and take him home, but instead we stay and as he gets worse I get more embarrassed.

In my opinion, this would in fact be the best thing to do in this circumstance. If I were in your place, since I had already paid for the class I might not stop going, but at the first sign of over-the-top behavior I would scoop up the puppy and take him outside, where I would have him lie down and get petted until he calmed down. Then back inside. Repeat. It could be an opportunity to work on settling down skills.

If that doesn't suit him or you for any reason, then I would say drop out of that class and just concentrate on the other one. He's not learning anything useful under those circumstances.

[Lawgirl]

For a puppy, 5 minutes is a long time to concentrate.  The best thing is to keep doing short, frequent training sessions through the day, and always try to end on a good note.

And yes, they learn so quickly, which is why you don't want them learning the wrong thing!  A few repetitions on a couple of days and something is learned.

Be prepared for adolescence, where his brain will fall out and he will forget everything he has learned, and you are starting from near scratch.

Ah puppies! The joy!

[ShellyF]

Your pup sounds so similar to ours

We aren’t doing any classes yet but we are arranging plenty of pupdates with dogs we know and also making new pupdate friends. We also use trails that have plenty of varieties of dogs and humans on and we can control when we go and how long we spend there. 

No classes for us. They are a bun fight!