Help with Border Collie Breed ID

[BarkyBarkandtheFunkyBunch]

Hi,

My wife and I got Pandy last week and she is our first Border Collie (or so we think). We got Pandy at a shelter and they told us she was a border collie mix and 4 months old, but we think she is a bit older. She has short hair and some odd features, is Pandy a BC mix or something else? Any help would be appreciated.

 

[Journey]

No help but she sure is cute!

[BarkyBarkandtheFunkyBunch]

26 minutes ago, Journey said:

No help but she sure is cute!

Even if she's not a BC, we'll love her just the same

[GentleLake]

Welcome to the Boards. Cute pup.

If she's still got any puppy teeth she's probably less than 6 months old.

Her head looks a bit blocky, but that could just be the angle in the pics. Border collies most definitely come in slick coats. And she does look like she could well be at least part border collie.

But you're really not going to know for a while. I adopted a pup of about 6 months give or take a week, maybe 2 either way several years ago - 6 actually. My, how time does fly! She really looked very much like a border collie puppy at that age, except for rather wonky ears. By the time she was a year or so old it was quite obvious that she's got a considerable amount (I'd guess 50%) of sighthound in her.

But you've got the right attitude. Whatever she is, she is and will be special.

[Bordercentrics]

Pandy is a real cutie!  Looks can change dramatically as a pup matures, so it is too soon to tell by appearances what she might be.  When evaluating a dog that may be a mix, I always pay the most attention to the dog's behavior.  Does she stalk things?  Does she circle around things?  Does she stare at things? (Including you if she wants something!)  If a pup or dog displays herding behaviors, it is part herding breed!   Is she extremely alert to sounds?  Movement?   Even these behaviors can develop a little later.

 

Kathy Robbins

[BarkyBarkandtheFunkyBunch]

34 minutes ago, Bordercentrics said:

Pandy is a real cutie!  Looks can change dramatically as a pup matures, so it is too soon to tell by appearances what she might be.  When evaluating a dog that may be a mix, I always pay the most attention to the dog's behavior.  Does she stalk things?  Does she circle around things?  Does she stare at things? (Including you if she wants something!)  If a pup or dog displays herding behaviors, it is part herding breed!   Is she extremely alert to sounds?  Movement?   Even these behaviors can develop a little later.

 

Kathy Robbins

Hi Kathy,

Thanks so much. all of the traits you listed she has with the exception of sound. She walks in circles outside the house perimeter and cars, but she doesn't spin in short circle like most dogs I've seen do right before they lay down. We've had her one week and her instincts started to kick in on day 4. She has had her nose to the ground after her first few walks and goes after rabbits and rodents with a sharp focus. I threw a stick today and she held onto it for 1/4 mile and brought it home. She keeps nibbling at it on the porch. She has nipped at our heels a few times also and I was reading that is common behavior for Border Collies, but she is also a puppy, so I might be over analyzing. 

[starry777]

Well, she's really pretty whatever she is--so much so that I saved one of the pics to my computer. I put her in a folder with other pretty dogs, hehe  

[Irish Collie]

Looks like a short haired version of my Meg, the head does look slightly large. Pretty dog, I would have picked her.

[BarkyBarkandtheFunkyBunch]

3 hours ago, Irish Collie said:

Looks like a short haired version of my Meg, the head does look slightly large. Pretty dog, I would have picked her.

Meg looks so sweet and adorable. What a cute face.

[GentleLake]

On 7/27/2018 at 11:27 PM, BarkyBarkandtheFunkyBunch said:

...I was reading that is common behavior for Border Collies...

The thing is that all of the behaviors that border collies exhibit are also displayed by other dogs of other breeds and mixes in varying degrees -- and in more or less concentrations in border collies who've not been introduced to livestock. I don't see anything in the behaviors you describe that screams border collie to me, but then it's a combination of the border collie behaviors that helps ID them as such.

Sorry, I know that isn't very helpful. But it's kinda hard to describe to someone not really familiar with the breed.

[CptJack]

One of the things that used to confound me would be people who would say one of the surest ways of identifying a BC was seeing the dog MOVE. 

Totally baffled me. 

 

 

It doesn't anymore.  Both of those dogs are booking it.  One in the lead a BC- X (little more than half and does not move like a BC).   other one is either much more BC or, more likely (I've now done the damned DNA test, though I don't quite trust them), purebred.   That picture is terrible but look at the difference in their postures while they're moving fast.  It's striking.

 

That bit of the 'behavior/id' out of the way - I have no idea, but that is one REALLY CUTE PUPPY!  Congratulations on your new addition. She sounds as awesome as she is cute.

[gcv-border]

Cute puppy. Kudos to you and your wife for adopting from the shelter.

I would give it a high probability that she is a BC mix. If you want her to be part BC, then she is!

Nipping at the heels is not uniquely herding dog behavior (as Gentle Lake explained above). I find little dogs often do it too. Having said that, it is rude and not to be tolerated - regardless of breed. If you need help training her to stop, start another post, and you will get some good advice. (You can also try to search the archives. )

[Caesg]

@BarkyBarkandtheFunkyBunch . Another BC newb here, I'm useless as far as ID goes.  I just wanted to drop in to echo what everyone else is saying--beautiful dog!  I love your photography, as well.  Also, I laughed outloud when I read "I threw a stick today and she held onto it for 1/4 mile and brought it home."  I shared that with MrLoverMan who happened to be in the room.  He isn't too partial to dogs (100% cat man, he is) and even he thought that was pretty cute.   

To @GentleLake, @Bordercentrics, @CptJack, @gcv-border: Although I'm not the OP, I want to express appreciation for your input.  I love reading all the answers and feel like I am steadily learning more every time that I return to these boards.  It's also nice that I'm starting to pick up on a few things.  For example, when I saw @CptJack's photo, I was able to guess what he was going to refer to (the body position).  Which, felt really cool!  I'm starting to retain some of the knowledge!  

[GentleLake]

19 hours ago, CptJack said:

...one of the surest ways of identifying a BC was seeing the dog MOVE...

Yes, very much this! Thanks, @CptJack for pinpointing that for me.

This is what I was saying was hard to describe to someone not familiar with it. But movement is probably even more central to it than the behaviors themselves, which as mentioned previously are common to all dogs. There's a fluidity of movement and a slinkiness to their movements that when combined with their purpose and intensity creates that "certain something" that's pretty much unique to the breed . . . and that you have to see in-dog to identify.

Yeah, it's hard to describe.

As I've been looking at rescues for another dog I've gone to meet a couple of dogs whose pictures looked very border collie-ish. But the instant they brought the dog out to meet me I know it wasn't.

[BarkyBarkandtheFunkyBunch]

2 hours ago, Caesg said:

@BarkyBarkandtheFunkyBunch . Another BC newb here, I'm useless as far as ID goes.  I just wanted to drop in to echo what everyone else is saying--beautiful dog!  I love your photography, as well.  Also, I laughed outloud when I read "I threw a stick today and she held onto it for 1/4 mile and brought it home."  I shared that with MrLoverMan who happened to be in the room.  He isn't too partial to dogs (100% cat man, he is) and even he thought that was pretty cute.   

To @GentleLake, @Bordercentrics, @CptJack, @gcv-border: Although I'm not the OP, I want to express appreciation for your input.  I love reading all the answers and feel like I am steadily learning more every time that I return to these boards.  It's also nice that I'm starting to pick up on a few things.  For example, when I saw @CptJack's photo, I was able to guess what he was going to refer to (the body position).  Which, felt really cool!  I'm starting to retain some of the knowledge!  

"Also, I laughed outloud when I read "I threw a stick today and she held onto it for 1/4 mile and brought it home."

She has now upgraded to a bone and won't let it out of her site, she brought it on her morning walk today lol. We brought her into town for the first time yesterday and she did great, the town hosted a festival, so it was filled with other dogs and livestock. On the way in, I slowed down the car so she could see some cattle and she barked,her hair was standing straight up like a cat lol. Pany also had her first up-close deer encounter. 

[BarkyBarkandtheFunkyBunch]

4 hours ago, gcv-border said:

Cute puppy. Kudos to you and your wife for adopting from the shelter.

I would give it a high probability that she is a BC mix. If you want her to be part BC, then she is!

Nipping at the heels is not uniquely herding dog behavior (as Gentle Lake explained above). I find little dogs often do it too. Having said that, it is rude and not to be tolerated - regardless of breed. If you need help training her to stop, start another post, and you will get some good advice. (You can also try to search the archives. )

Thanks for the tip. We are going to but her in obedient classes in Sept. She is very well behaved, but she needs to learn a few things I can't teach her. She was a bit aggressive today with the nipping when playing, but she stopped rather fast when she saw that I was displeased. 

[BarkyBarkandtheFunkyBunch]

On ‎7‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 9:09 AM, GentleLake said:

The thing is that all of the behaviors that border collies exhibit are also displayed by other dogs of other breeds and mixes in varying degrees -- and in more or less concentrations in border collies who've not been introduced to livestock. I don't see anything in the behaviors you describe that screams border collie to me, but then it's a combination of the border collie behaviors that helps ID them as such.

Sorry, I know that isn't very helpful. But it's kinda hard to describe to someone not really familiar with the breed.

I think it might be a bit early to really look into her behavior as puppies will be pupps and not being familiar with the breed, I'm going to get it all wrong.

[BarkyBarkandtheFunkyBunch]

On ‎7‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 12:22 AM, starry777 said:

Well, she's really pretty whatever she is--so much so that I saved one of the pics to my computer. I put her in a folder with other pretty dogs, hehe  

Thanks Starry, a dog owner always thinks "my dog is sooooo cute" but you just confirmed it along with other people on the thread 

[Caesg]

22 hours ago, BarkyBarkandtheFunkyBunch said:

She has now upgraded to a bone and won't let it out of her site, she brought it on her morning walk today

ROFLOL.  I love it!  Thanks for the update.  lol.  Glad to hear that the trip in town went well, too.  Will you be working her around livestock, if she takes an interest to it?  Or was the slowing down around the cattle more a matter of curiosity to see how she'd respond?

[BarkyBarkandtheFunkyBunch]

2 hours ago, Caesg said:

ROFLOL.  I love it!  Thanks for the update.  lol.  Glad to hear that the trip in town went well, too.  Will you be working her around livestock, if she takes an interest to it?  Or was the slowing down around the cattle more a matter of curiosity to see how she'd respond?

It was just sort of a "hey look at that". I like showing dogs things for the first time, but she didn't appreciate it. I was looking more into it and it could have been fear or showing her dominance. She wasn't very close, maybe 10'  in the backseat of a car.

[starry777]

On ‎7‎/‎29‎/‎2018 at 11:16 AM, BarkyBarkandtheFunkyBunch said:

Thanks Starry, a dog owner always thinks "my dog is sooooo cute" but you just confirmed it along with other people on the thread 

Anytime!

I'll probably use it as a sketch reference at some point, just for something to draw in my sketch book. I like to practice drawing random things just to get overall better at drawing.

[BarkyBarkandtheFunkyBunch]

1 hour ago, starry777 said:

Anytime!

I'll probably use it as a sketch reference at some point, just for something to draw in my sketch book. I like to practice drawing random things just to get overall better at drawing.

I would love to see it when your done of I can.

As cute as Pandy is, she has nothing on or little Fifi who died a few months back.

[starry777]

Aww it sucks to lose somebody you're close to. I just had it happen to me a couple days ago Been making myself focus on happy things.

[BarkyBarkandtheFunkyBunch]

8 hours ago, starry777 said:

Aww it sucks to lose somebody you're close to. I just had it happen to me a couple days ago Been making myself focus on happy things.

I'm so sorry to hear that your beautiful corgis should be a good distraction. 

[starry777]

14 hours ago, BarkyBarkandtheFunkyBunch said:

I'm so sorry to hear that your beautiful corgis should be a good distraction. 

Thanks, I just bought her a new nail grinder today. I think somebody stole my old one. I haven't been able to find it for a year and I've looked everywhere in my house and garage.

Do you use a nail grinder on your dog or regular clippers?