Opinions on tying a dog outside of a business?

[Baderpadordercollie]

Sometimes I see a dog tied outside of a store or coffee shop. I have been tempted to do this but never have and never intend to because I would think there would be a risk of the dog getting stolen, frightened by someone/something, getting attacked by another dog, or being fed something bad by a well meaning person.

I am just wondering what your thoughts and experience are on this.

[Lawgirl]

It is maybe preferable to leaving the dog in the car?

Not something I would do personally.

[Rush Fan]

Seems like a pretty bad idea to me.

[urge to herd]

My county law, (Sonoma County, Northern CA,) is that tying a dog out on public property, then leaving it, is considered abandonment. The dog can be seized by animal control officers.

I have a clueless acquaintance who took her dog & human aggressive dog for a walk downtown in her small community. Something caught her eye in a shop, she tied the dog to a newspaper vending machine, and walked inside. Her dog attacked another dog. She had to pay vet fees for the other dog, AND a fine. 

I'm sure laws vary from area to area, but leaving a dog tied outside in public seems like a Really, Really Bad Idea.

Ruth & Gibbs

[D'Elle]

I think to do that is a terrible idea for many reasons and when I see it I am very unimpressed with the owner of that dog.

[Baderpadordercollie]

Basically y'all just confirmed what I was thinking.

Yeah it's allowed here and I see it sometimes and hope the owner comes back out soon. As I said, I can see why someone would do it but I don't ever intend to. I don't think it makes them an abusive or stupid person necessarily, I guess people just don't realize the risk. They think "oh, it's a small town, nothing happens here." 

[GentleLake]

Good points about liability and safety concerns.

My biggest fear, in addition to those already mentioned, would be that someone would steal my dog. I'd never forgive myself.

[Journey]

I live in a small town where people occasionally do this..more often than not we just bring them in the shops with us. 

[jami74]

Do people find their border collies are easily stolen? It's a genuine question. My last dog would not have gone off with just anyone. If I left him somewhere he'd have waited for me, there were only a handful of people (my partner and a couple of close colleagues/friends) who could have convinced him otherwise (I worked in a huge horse training centre so we met and 'knew' a lot of people). Because of that it surprises me to see so many dogs get stolen. Our new puppy, once he's made friends with a new person I think would happily go off with them at the moment. Is there a way of training them to not just go off with anyone? I suppose it comes with adding distractions to the 'stay' command when the time comes. Dogs do seem to get stolen quite a lot where I live (judging by the facebook posts).

Being able to wait outside a shop is something I plan to teach, just in case we're ever in that position where for whatever reason I have him with me and need to pop into a shop for something, although I don't plan to use it and certainly wouldn't for anything other than an emergency (maybe to grab a bottle of water).

[D'Elle]

I would no more tie my dog outside a building and go in than I would leave my wallet full of money out on the sidewalk. Perhaps the wallet is more likely to be stolen, but the dog is a lot more important to me than the wallet is.

You may think your dog will not go off with someone but a dog is a dog. You cannot always accurately predict what a dog will do. And if someone comes along and slips a lead onto the dog and drags him or her into a car, they will not succeed in resisting without resorting to aggression, which most dogs will not do in that circumstance, especially if food is involved.

There also is the possibility that something....a squirrel or whatever, runs in front of the dog and the dog takes chase into the street.

I strongly advise against teaching your dog to wait outside a business. It takes only a few seconds for tragedy to occur. Ask all the people who turned their backs on their young child for 10 seconds and turned back to find the kid gone. Sometimes forever.

[Baderpadordercollie]

Journey

This is the USA; you bring a dog into store and people throw a fit. Okay, there are exceptions but that's how it is most places.

Jami74

It depends on the dog I suppose. My dog would happily go with anyone. She loves and trusts everyone at first sight, especially if they have food. But even if the dog isn't friendly, a determined person could still steal them. 

GentleLake

Same. I'm not taking any chances. 

 

 

[Baderpadordercollie]

Lawgirl

That's true; it's probably less hot than leaving them in the car. But the car has locking doors and someone would have to break the window to steal the dog, as opposed to simply untying the lead and walking away. 

[D'Elle]

Depending on where you live, the car is not necessarily an option.

Where I live, it is illegal to leave a dog in a car from April to November, and for good reason. Many places don't have such laws, but one has to remember that a vehicle, even with windows cracked, heats up very rapidly and will reach temperatures  20 degrees or more warmer than it is outside. I never leave my dogs in a car unless it is very cool out, and the car is in the shade. Even then, not for long.

[Baderpadordercollie]

D'Elle

Also, I would think most adult humans are capable of overpowering a dog and forcibly dragging them or carrying them away, even if the dog does resist. Most BCs aren't that big. 

[Baderpadordercollie]

D'Elle

If I am traveling, (as I do a few times a year,) it's pretty hard to avoid leaving my dog in the car. Usually not very long, I always park in the shade, have the windows cracked, and get back out there ASAP, and have never had a problem. I'm not sure how I could avoid this when on the road. I've never lived or been to anywhere that dogs are allowed inside a business unless it's a pet store. 

[urge to herd]

2 hours ago, Baderpadordercollie said:

Also, I would think most adult humans are capable of overpowering a dog and forcibly dragging them or carrying them away, even if the dog does resist. Most BCs aren't that big. 

Have you ever tried to lift a 40 lb bc into a bath tub? It's quite a struggle. And I owned the dog. 

Gibbs would definitely not let a total stranger lift him, or lead him away for that matter, unless I were there. Some dogs, (Buzz was one ~ he loved EVERYONE) will be fine, because they basically have a trusting temperament. Some dogs are innately suspicious of strangers, to the point of growling/snapping when approached by one.

And then, most adult humans have no idea how to subdue a snapping, growling, furry whirligig. Animal control officers  have to be trained in capture techniques.  And they still get bitten.

Ruth & Gibbs

 

[CptJack]

I hate, hate, and I mean hate the 'don't leave your dog in a car, ever' thing. 

This is not because I don't believe that cars can't get hot and people don't have to be careful and aware, but because there is always some subset of the population - sometimes law makers included amongst them - that any dog  in a parked  car for any reason, for any length of time, must necessarily and avoidably drop dead from heat stroke.   No education about what mitigate it, none about what to actually look for when it comes to distress.  Just dog in parked car in weather over 40 degrees?  Going to drop dead, break that window!

I have had someone screaming and cursing in my face, threatening me with violence for having a dog in a parked car.  Except the vehicle was running.  The AC was blasting. The really cherry on top? I was *in the vehicle with her*.   I have had friends who have had their windows broken to 'rescue' stuffed animals out of dog crates in the back of their vehicles.  I have heard of entire nosework trials that had the police called because it is standard to crate out of vehicles. 

"Leave them at home" doesn't work for me.  Because if I'm going somewhere with the dogs, it's to a dog dedicated event.  The dog needs to be there.  Sometimes? Needing gas is impossible to avoid because of the length of the trip.  Sometimes, I need to pee. 

I do not worry about leaving the dog in the vehicle because of heat.  If I am set up to keep them comfortable for 8-12 hours at a trial or seminar, they're going to be fine while I go pee.   I do worry about the general public saving them.  Because let me tell you, the person who 'saves' Molly, in particular, is going to set loose a growling, snarling, snapping dog who wants no part of anyone touching her - and then either bite the person and run into traffic, or just run into traffic.  Either way? She is now dead.   MOST of my dogs aren't going to hang around happily with a stranger or not go bolting off into traffic or a parking lot looking for me, no matter how friendly they are, and none of my dogs are going to listen. 

 

...Of course, all of that said means I'm even less likely to leave them tied up outside a business because *screw that*.  I don't need helpful people deciding they've been abandoned out there. 

[highway61]

 

[Baderpadordercollie]

Highway61

Ohmygod! Hahaha! 

[Baderpadordercollie]

CptJack

Yes, thank you. I worry about that too. I don't ever just have my dog in the car when I'm out getting groceries or something like that, it's always because I'm taking her somewhere. Yup, sometimes you have to pee, or eat, or get some water. Sometimes people just go too far.

On a happier note, once when traveling I went to a church where before Mass started, the priest asked that if any travelers had left their dogs in the car, to please bring them into the church since it was hot. I thought that was the sweetest thing. 

 

 

[Journey]

8 hours ago, Baderpadordercollie said:

Journey

This is the USA; you bring a dog into store and people throw a fit. Okay, there are exceptions but that's how it is most places.

 

 

I know I'm in the US... Around here though my dogs go into the attorney, the co-op, the bank, place I get my haircut.. we don't have animal control or a Humane Society in the entire County. We have a sheriff's department that totes stray dogs around with them knocking on doors looking for an owner. And I've only ever had them knock on mine once.  I don't know that I would say most places, the US is a big area.

[Baderpadordercollie]

Journey

I guess I've just never had the pleasure of living in or visiting anywhere that dogs were allowed anywhere except pet stores. Sounds like I'm living in/visiting the wrong places.

[Baderpadordercollie]

Highway61

Okay I'm sorry but I'm still laughing. How is this so accurate? I'm dying. 

[D'Elle]

Here, there are many places where a dog can come into a business. Any kind of hardware store, many independent shops, and even restaurants if they have outside seating. People tend to be dog friendly and the server will bring your dog a bowl of water when he or she brings the people water. On the other hand, the police will be called immediately if a dog is in a car in the summer. But that is reasonable, because we live in a bit of a warm place and when it is over 90 degrees the dog can be dead in a very short time. Right now daytime temps are around 112, so it's not like the people who over-react when it is 40 degrees out.

It completely depends on circumstances and where you are. And, yes, if I am travelling with the dogs by myself and have to pee, I have to leave them in the car. But I run. And I mean, literally RUN. And I simply wouldn't do it if it were over a certain temperature or there was no shade unless I left the car running with the AC and locked them in. And then, I would RUN.

[CptJack]

Well, I DO live in Southern Virginia - which isn't AZ.  

But I've crated out of vehicles for trials when it's 90+ degrees outside.  Their crating area in the back of the van is typically a lot more comfortable/cooler than where I am and 'hiding' in there with them is a thing I have been known to do.  Granted, when it's 8-10 hours, the van is open and it's not when I'm stopping to pee, but I'm sure not running back and forth and in a panic because of the heat.

The equipment exists to make that safe (shade cloths, battery powered fans blowing over a cooler of ice, cooling mats or coats, water to drink, and temp alarms that send notifications to the phone)..  It isn't expensive, really, nor is it hard.  

I don't worry about the heat hurting my dogs, at all.  I worry about people with good intentions getting them killed, though!