New Rescue Recall Challenge

[hef]

Hi, just adopted Kingsley, red & white BC, they think he's 3 to 4 yrs old, I'm leaning towards 2 to 3, just seems young. He is my 4th BC, currently have one more red and white, (they look like twins). I guess maybe I've been lucky, where the last 3 were perfect off leash dogs. 2 of the previous 3 were adopted also. One thing I've noticed, Kingsley is the 2nd BC I've had that wants nothing to do with toys. In a way this is good, but when it comes to holding a dog's attention, nothing like a ball or frisbee to do that.

 

I've only had Kingsley for 2 days now, coming back to the BC Boards for advice. I've got him on a long line to let him walk around on his own, I've got a nice 2 acre property, very safe surroundings beyond that. He walks around, nose to the ground, then just starts walking rather fast, a slow run, and heads off in one direction. I catch up to him, he lies down somewhat submissive and we go home. I also work him on a leash, teaching a heel and reward on him paying attention to me. He is VERY good at sitting at my feet and looking up. When you see this, you think that this might be very easy to teach, he just seems to lose it and just start walking away. Of course right now, my fear is he will just be lost, not knowing his new surroundings.

 

I plan to keep working on the walking training.

What advice can you offer on this? I know training collars are out, the trust I establish with my dogs is very important. I've always said that a dog that appreciates where he lives, sleeps and eats, is more likely to want to never leave the property. Kingsley doesn't know how good he's got it:) ....yet.

 

Thanks

Hef

[D'Elle]

You have only had this dog for 2 days, so the dog really has no reason yet to listen to you or do what you want. He doesn't even know you are his person yet; you may just be another place that comes and goes.

Establishing the relationship is the first thing to do, and I would concentrate on that.

 

For recall, I like to start out in the house using a plastic or metal whistle part of the time, because a whistle carries farther than voice does if you are ever in the woods or wilderness or fields. I call the dog, and/or whistle, and when the dog comes there is a very yummy treat. Treat the other dog, too, if he comes. Do nothing if the new dog doesn't come. Do this for a week or so in the house, several times a day, then move it outside to a fenced yard or on the long leash if you don't have a fence. Do this a lot. By which I mean hundreds of times.

 

Then, let him drag the long lead so that if he doesn't come you can reel him in. But even if you reel him in, when he comes those final steps to you, praise and treat him. Make sure the recall is solid before you ever under any circumstances take off the long lead. Do not ever call him to you outside and off leash unless you are prepared to go get him if he doesn't come to you.

 

My dogs have been with me for years, and have good recalls, and even so when we go for walks off leash I carry treats to reward the recalls. Reinforcement never hurts.

[GentleLake]

Beautiful dog. Congratulations!

 

Only 2 days in you can have absolutely no idea how trainable or responsive Kingsley is. He's most like half in a state of shock and is just feeling his way around trying to figure out the lay of the land and the new people and how he fits into all of it. Heck, he doesn't even know for sure that he's staying yet. In the picture you can even see in the slightly drawn lips and the way he's holding his ears that he's a little anxious, and that's supported by your description of his behavior as well.

 

It can take at least 3 months for a dog to acclimate to a new home and when I adopted a pretty shut down stray a number of years ago he was still offering new (untaught) behaviors for a full 6 months.

 

It sounds to me like you're doing the right thing by just letting him explore and settle in. Please be patient and allow things top unfold at his pace. Don't burden him -- or yourself-- with any expectations about how this should go or how quickly it should happen.

 

If he's going off in one direction when he's loose on the long line, chances are he's trying to go "home." When he does that just pick up the end of the line and bring him back -- happily, joyfully telling him that this is his home now and that he's appreciated and loved. He'll understand more of your words that you may realize and right now he needs compassion and understanding of the very difficult transition he has to make. Give him the space to grow and I'm sure he'll learn to appreciate and love his new home and you for providing it.

 

When I adopted Bodhi, he had no clue what a toy was. No clue how to play with a human or even another dog. So my other dog and I just treated him like a puppy in this regard and taught him how to play with us and the joys of expanding his world. It took him 3 years to understand what a ball was good for (and he's not a "slow" dog; he recovered his confidence and learned everything he needed to know to become a therapy dog in 6 months), but when he did he instantly turned into the stereotypical ball obsessed border collie. It could take Kingsley 3 days or 3 years, but does it really matter? Every day you're giving him a better life than he's had before and he'll figure that part out just fine.

 

Wishing you and Kingsley many happy years together.

[Sue R]

Very early days for the two of you so far so please, please, give him a lot more time to settle in, figure out his place in your life (and your place in his), and let his real self show. Everything is just so new to him. I think that when we take our old dogs down to our son's neighborhood, should I let them off leash, they might be so interested in scents and sights that I might not get the least bit of attention from them - and we've been together for over 15 years! Imagine how he feels in a new place, with everything new to him, and you just being (so far) the person at the other end of the long line or leash.

 

Congrats on adopting a new dog who needed a home and needed you, and thanks for coming here for help. I am sure you will get it all worked out but, at least at first. it's going to be a couple steps in one direction, then a step in another, etc.!

 

Very best wishes!

[hef]

Thanks all, certainly no rush here, just the excitement of getting him led me to do research and get back to posting. I've been posting on this board since around 2000, when I got my first BC.

My other BC (Kane) seen in the photo below was a 3 yr old rescue, and yea I know, all BCs are different, he had no adjustment period, but then again, he was not thrown in a shelter and spend a miserable 3 weeks wondering what happened. Kane was given to me by his owner, one house to the other, but he adjusted very quickly.

So, yes I have lots of patience. Went and bought some good treats today that Kingsley loves. Spent some good time on the lead today. Had him sit and stay, I walked away a good distance, called him, and he would come to me quickly. Lasted a few times, then he went the other way, I tracked him down, will try more tomorrow. Tied him to a tree for this photo, he did not seem to mind being tied, he looked relaxed, even though those ears are still tied back.

 

He's a good dog so far, except for the food stealing off the counter, hope to fix that.

[Sue R]

The best fix for counter surfing is no food on the counter.

[D'Elle]

The best fix for counter surfing is no food on the counter.

^ What she said.

 

Removing the option is so much easier than trying to train it out of the dog.

 

I like teaching my dogs "Out of the kitchen". I train it like any other behavior, with praise and treats. That way I can easily get the dogs to leave the room and stay out while I am preparing food, and they are not under foot or tempted to counter surf. At all other times there's no food on the counters.

[GentleLake]

I still like to teach my dogs not to counter surf. I don't want to be worried about it if someone else comes here (though that's rare) and leaves something on the counter or table or if I go to someone else's house or a picnic or the like where there may be food out. I expect my dogs to have good manners and not take what's not given to them.

[Sue R]

My dogs don't counter surf and I have no fear of leaving food on the counter or table. But I also consider good management as important as training and, if there should be a problem that arises, a key component of solving that problem.

 

I tell the adult kids and grandkids that there's nothing like a puppy or dog to teach you to put your stuff up.

[CptJack]

Yeah, the real trick to dogs not counter surfing is actually, IMO, the dogs not learning that there's food on the counter. Once they've discovered that it's up there, gotten it, and had the behavior be rewarding it becomes a problem. Keeping food off the counters and low tables tends to stop them going up there nosing around looking for it and means that it doesn't become a habit/becomes a thing they don't think about.

Sometimes, good management and preventing the unwanted behavior IS the training.

[hef]

Well, Kingsley apparently learned it elsewhere. First time he's in my kitchen he put his paws up on the counter and said hey, what's for dinner? I've seen other breeds do it, but this is my first. Sure, cleaning up completely is best, but I'm not sure how far I have to go yet. Will he pull a bag of oranges off? looking around my counter and island right now, there are a bunch of things, not food related. He pulled a spatula down a couple days ago, and was licking it. Just want him to learn some common sense and be a dog.

 

Kingsley is doing well, eating well (his food) now. He enjoys being outside, I've tied a long rope to a tree right outside my office window, he enjoys just hanging out under the tree. I heard him bark once, very quiet dog, doesn't say much. The floppy ears seem somewhat permanent, thought it just a submission thing, but I dont think it is.

At least he stopped peeing in my house, that was annoying for a couple days, I've heard it's common for Rescues.

[D'Elle]

Are you able to see him out the window when you tie him to the tree, and keep a very close eye on him?

 

I ask because in the county where I live it is illegal to tie up a dog for any reason whatever, because tying a dog is very dangerous for the dog. He could get himself tangled up in the rope or wrap it around the tree or any number of things and die astonishingly quickly. I have known people to whom this happened; one of them was in the house when it happened.

 

I strongly disapprove of tying a dog outside, myself, and would never do it. Border collie rescue here won't adopt to anyone who thinks it is OK to tie a dog, even if it is nearby. I am not trying to tell you what to do and I am not judging you because I don't know how you are doing it, or why, or what your circumstances are. I am only wanting to speak a few words of caution, and suggest that you find a different solution if you can.

[hef]

Well geez, thanks for your opinion. I've owned 3 other border collies, pretty sure I know how to take care of them. Pretty easy when you have one that you DONT have to restrict, but this dog wants to be outside, and while I'm working with him as much as possible, he prefers to be out and he lies there very comfortably. I could not do that with one of my other border collies, that also ran from any noise. Tied up he would hurt himself. So yes, I'm aware of potential threats. thanks.

[GentleLake]

There's no need to take offense when people are just trying to be helpful.

 

I coordinate applications for a rescue and you'd probably be surprised at the number of people who tell us all about some of the incredibly stupid things they do or plan to do in managing their dogs. Because most of us here don't know each other personally it's not unusual for someone to offer a word of caution just in case. Or for others who may be reading or will read later who don't have as much experience.

[amc]

D'Elle has years of experience with rescue dogs and has generously shared her knowledge and wisdom with us freely. I am certain she didn't mean to offend - she just has the welfare of the dog at heart, as I'm sure you do.

 

Amy

[D'Elle]

Indeed, I had no offense in mind, and in fact made a point to say that I was neither judging you nor telling you want to do and that I do not know your individual circumstances. I wrote it carefully so as not to give offense, and only, as others have said, to offer a mild word of caution.

 

It is a shame that was not enough to keep you from getting defensive.

I have found that the less I get on the defensive about things the more opportunities I have to learn something.

 

If you already know all that I said, I am glad to hear it. There's no need to be offended.

[Sue R]

This.^^^

[hef]

Okay, thank you D'Elle, for the words of caution. My post was unnecessary, I apologize.

[hef]

Here's a couple of photos of Kingsley sitting by the tree, outside my office window. Funny the way he crosses his arms like that, he seems to do this often.

[GentleLake]

He's looking a lot more relaxed in this pic than the first one you posted. Great.

 

A fair number of dogs will cross front paws like that. I had a friend who had an English Shepherd who does it. She put it on cue. Pretty cute.

[urge to herd]

He looks pretty happy. Except, in the second pic, with his front legs crossed, he looks like he's about to make an important announcement.

 

Thx for the pix!!!

 

Ruth & Gibbs

[D'Elle]

Okay, thank you D'Elle, for the words of caution. My post was unnecessary, I apologize.

 

Apology accepted.