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Tommy Coyote

Another needless dog attack

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And this is why I don't take my dogs out in public any more.

 

Line Creek Park is really close to me. I used to take my dogs there really early in the morning so they could run. No one was ever there. But then the area started to be built up and now there are several large subdivisions right across the street.

 

Just a couple of days ago a woman was walking her Scottie in the park. She stopped to let the dog get a drink out of the creek. Then she heard a woman yell "grab your dog!"

 

She looked up and a woman with a white pit bull was being dragged by her dog. The dog was too strong for her to hold. And the dog attacked the little dog and almost killed it. Fortunately, a man in the park came to help and they managed to get the pit bull off.

 

The pit bull owner said she was going to put her dog in the car and she put her dog in the car and then took off. Now the police are looking for a gold SUV and an owner with a white pit bull with a pink collar.

 

The little dog had 2 hours of surgery but should be ok.

 

This isn't the first time I have heard of attacks like this where owners were walking their dogs but were completely unable to hold them when the dogs decided to attack another dog - or a person.

 

I had something similar happen to me when I was walking 2 big boxers. And I had walked those dogs numerous times without a problem. They were really pretty well trained. Never pulled. Then one evening we were almost back to their townhouse and both dogs took off at the same time. They saw a cat. I was completely unable to hold them. I wasn't about to let go so I just got dragged and ended up on the ground. And when I looked up both dogs were standing over the top of me going "what are you doing down there?" When I couldn't stop them I just went down on the ground and lucky for me it was a dirt field and not cement.

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I love to hike with my dogs but I always have concerns about other people and their dogs. I see a woman fairly often and she walks a Bernese Mountain Dog with a miniature poodle sized flexi leash attached to the dog's buckle collar. She walks with a man who has a Corgi on a choke chain and six foot leash. Every time I see her the dog (friendly, thank God) heads for us and the woman topples over like a fainting goat and gets drug across the trail. All the while she is saying "it's ok, she's friendly." The dog comes over and drools all over my dogs, tail wagging the whole time. I keep wondering when my dogs are going to have had enough and snark at her. Usually, I try to avoid her. I find the situation puzzling, the man never makes any attempt to help her! And the woman never makes any attempt to stop her dog.

I do carry Pepper Spray and my cell phone at all times when I hike.

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There was a bad dog attack less than 1/4 mile from me. Two loose pit bulls attacked another dog, ripping it's throat out. Yes, I really mean that. One jugular vein gone, damage to the trachea and esophagus, the muscles of the neck were severed, hanging loose, and had to be reconstructed and put back into place. There were many punctures and lacerations all over the dog's body. Hours of surgery and many weeks of wound care later, the dog is recovering. This was a 40 lb dog, so just think about the ferocity of attack required for that sort of damage.

 

It took several people with knives to get the attacking dogs to stop. They had to stab them multiple times before they were willing to let go. The attacking dogs survived and were released by a judge to go home, because "if the dog didn't die it wasn't that bad of an attack." By all rights, the victim dog should be dead. It has me very worried that such aggressive dogs are loose again in my neighborhood.

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There have been several really bad attacks just in the last couple of weeks. One woman was killed by her boxer pit cross. She was just sitting out on her deck. Neighbors said the dog was her best buddy.

 

Two more people were in critical condition after the woman's son's dog attacked them when they went to get it out of it's crate. He had attacked them before but they just decided to keep him anyway. That dog was a retriever pit cross.

 

My neighborhood is full of pits but so far we have not had any problems. I have 2 next door but they were really well socialized with other dogs and people and children. I pet them all the time so they know me.

 

I have had numerous dogs with temperament problems. I took them because they could live here and be ok. It is quiet here and no kids. But none of them were vicious. I simply would not keep a vicious dog. There are too many nice dogs out there that need homes.

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I honestly believe that most people don't have a clue about dog behavior; how to read it or what their dogs are capable of doing. At least once a day a client tells me that their dog would NEVER bite and the dog then proceeds to try to bite me or sends clear signals that it would. Rescue groups are not immune. Far too often I see them adopt out biting dogs (with known bite histories).

 

I recently had to euthanize a dog that had attacked multiple people. These were serious bites requiring plastic surgery. After the first bite incident they had taken the dog back after his bite quarantine was up, insisting he would be ok if kept home and only exposed to friends and family. Then a family member came to visit, walked through the door and was immediately attacked.

 

Despite what some insist, there are breed tendencies. Some are quicker to bite than others. For some breeds it's a quick nip. For others, it's grab hold, bite down and shake. Some of the worst breeds I've seen are Akitas, Chihuahuas, Daschunds, Rotties and Boxers. I don't blame the breeds or think banning them will help, but people need to be realistic about their pets. Some individuals just have no place in society. It's not worth a person getting bit.

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It's such a shame that things like this keep happening. Where I lived in Nevada people let their dogs run loose all time and I almost got attacked while walking to work by two pit bulls one was male and trying to hump me getting aggressive as I tried to get away I had to knock on a strangers door and have them help me and let me in their house because the dogs would not go away and these dogs were well over 60 pounds. It was pretty frightening. I also almost got attacked by some hound mix that was in someone's yard alone with a small child with no adults and I was well over half an acre away walking home when it came charging at me. I had to yell at the little girl to go get her parents and get the dog. I wish people would keep a better eye on their animals I have two small children and would be terrified if I came across a viscous dog while out with them I'm not sure what I would do..I guess I should be more prepared for theses situations with pepper spray or something.

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There aren't words to describe the absolute rage that judge's attitude incites in me. It's a shame someone didn't hold up freaking PHOTOGRAPHS of that poor dog's injury!! What an absolutely incompetent moron and a discredit to the bench. Good thing it wasn't in my neighborhood, because believe me, I'd be raising one hell of a row to get public attention on that judge. *fumes*

I live rural and the only place my dogs meet other dogs is on a hiking trail a friend and I use. Thankfully everyone on that trail has been reasonably sane with no serious incidents.

.... It took several people with knives to get the attacking dogs to stop. They had to stab them multiple times before they were willing to let go. The attacking dogs survived and were released by a judge to go home, because "if the dog didn't die it wasn't that bad of an attack." By all rights, the victim dog should be dead. It has me very worried that such aggressive dogs are loose again in my neighborhood.

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It's such a shame that things like this keep happening. Where I lived in Nevada people let their dogs run loose all time and I almost got attacked while walking to work by two pit bulls one was male and trying to hump me getting aggressive as I tried to get away I had to knock on a strangers door and have them help me and let me in their house because the dogs would not go away and these dogs were well over 60 pounds. It was pretty frightening. I also almost got attacked by some hound mix that was in someone's yard alone with a small child with no adults and I was well over half an acre away walking home when it came charging at me. I had to yell at the little girl to go get her parents and get the dog. I wish people would keep a better eye on their animals I have two small children and would be terrified if I came across a viscous dog while out with them I'm not sure what I would do..I guess I should be more prepared for theses situations with pepper spray or something.

 

 

I carry pepper spray gel, since the gel doesn't drift as much in wind and so has less chance to end up on me or my dogs. Another friend of mine got a stun-gun walking stick that she uses. Looks just like a regular walking stick but the ZAP it makes is impressive. The only drawback is they don't work well in wet or rainy conditions.

 

Geez. Helluva thing that people even have to have such conversations. Meanwhile, in the UK I keep hearing more and more reports about dog attacks on livestock. I think an alarming segment of society is just losing touch with what dogs really are and what they can do. :unsure:

 

 

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I carry pepper spray gel, since the gel doesn't drift as much in wind and so has less chance to end up on me or my dogs. Another friend of mine got a stun-gun walking stick that she uses. Looks just like a regular walking stick but the ZAP it makes is impressive. The only drawback is they don't work well in wet or rainy conditions.

Geez. Helluva thing that people even have to have such conversations. Meanwhile, in the UK I keep hearing more and more reports about dog attacks on livestock. I think an alarming segment of society is just losing touch with what dogs really are and what they can do. :unsure:

 

 

That's a good Idea I'll definitely be picking some up I'd way rather be safe then sorry. My husbands cousin lived in a rural area with his pit bull and queensland heeled and the pit bull was super sweet but she killed a goat that kept "teasing" her and the ran off about a couple years later and ended up attacking a neighbors horse and ripping its through out and the neighbor shot the dog but sadly the horse died. And sadly they should have been keeping an eye on their dog, if they had this wouldn't have happen. I also agree that people don't educate themselves enough when dealing with animals and take the time to understand their animals behaviors and then dealing with them properly.

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It is amazing to me that people who know that a dog is vicious will still take it out in public.

 

That woman in Line Creek Park knew that dog would attack. She shouted a warning before it happened. She yelled "grab your dog" while her dog was pulling her behind her going in to attack. And if she couldn't hold that dog what was she doing in a public park knowing there most likely would be other dogs there? It makes no sense at all.

 

I know another woman who was out in her front yard with her Maltese when a woman came down the street with two dogs on leashes. They saw the Maltese and took off dragging the owner behind them. The little dog made it to safety but my friend was knocked down and broke her ankle. And that woman took off with her dogs and was never seen again.

 

So the dogs not only need to be on leashes but the owner needs to be able to hold them.

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My daughter and her dog were pursued by a wof hybrid and boxer roaming loose downtown along a paved walking/bike trail. They took refuge in a creek where the dogs would not follow. My daughter reported the incident to the police. These dogs had been reported before and were still allowed to get loose. And they lived right next to a deputy's house! Nothing concrete was ever done about them.

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My experience is just not the same as Liz's. I have been around a lot of Dachshunds of all varieties, and the majority were friendly with other dogs and people. The exception was the standard wires. Dachshunds are not very tolerant of rough handling, though, so I don't think they are a good choice for families with children; and they are ferocious yappers.

 

Clearly, YMMV.

 

An 8 month old baby was killed by a pit bull here in Maryland a few weeks ago. A few days ago a woman in North Carolina was likely killed by her Boerboel. The woman who wrote Pit Bulls for Dummies almost lost her Saluki when her two adopted pit bulls viciously attacked it. By her account, the dogs had been the best of buddies for two or three years before the incident.

 

Some dogs bite. Other dogs maul.

 

ETA: I should have said "....friendly with other Dachshunds and people", come to think of it. They weren't great with strange dogs. Also, to be fair, there is a 2008 study that suggests they are quicker to bite. Perhaps my more positive experience is due to the fact that those I knew were accustomed to being handled by strangers, since they were breed ring Dachshunds.

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On-purpose denial. I love dogs, MY dogs especially, but in general all dogs. And I respect them. Their teeth are sharper than mine.

 

I always believe someone who tells me their dog isn't friendly and/or doesn't like strange humans or other dogs. Always. And I never, ever, ever believe someone who's telling me their dog is friendly. I observe the dog carefully. Even the smallest hesitance on my part or Gibbs' part and I'm on my way.

 

Some dogs are friendly, and Gibbs is good with other dogs who have good dog manners. Puppies get a lot of license from him.

 

My job when I'm walking any dog is to a: keep myself safe, and b: keep the dog safe. It's not to socialize, or talk on the phone, or text. It's safety.

 

People can be idiots. I used to be one of them, and I'm very lucky that there was no damage done by my dogs. I'm grateful that I learned some lessons from other people's stupid moves.

 

Ruth and Gibbs

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I doubt most people read dog naturally. It takes education and/or observation and experience, and application of that learning. I've really been learning "modern" ideas about dogs for a relatively short portion of my life. I still find myself reverting to life-long ideas and reactions that "I know better than" many times.

 

Where a person is a real idiot is where they don't learn or won't learn, and criminal when they run away from responsibility.

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In many of these attacks, the ability to read canine body language wouldn't have made a bit of difference. The attack that Tommy Coyote mentions left the victim little chance to assess the attacking dog's body language. This happens in many of the accounts of dog attacks I've read. "The dog came out of nowhere" is a common statement in a good number of these attacks. Regarding the owner in this attack, "Grab your dog!" indicates they knew their dog was dog-aggressive.

 

In other attacks, the ability to read canine body language might have helped. "The dog attacked out of the blue" and "The dog never showed any indication of aggression" is a common statement in these cases.

 

I'm fairly good at reading canine body language--and I do study the new information--but I probably learned the most important thing from this forum. I don't feel the need to interact with others' dogs.

 

I don't need my adult dogs to meet new 'friends' of the canine or human variety either. My next door neighbor's parents "just love dogs" and can't seem to leave my dogs alone. So, I keep my dogs away from the fence line when they visit (I go out with my dogs, even with my yard fenced).

 

Regarding attacks, from what I am reading and from videos of attacks I've seen, pepper spray is not a very effective deterrent to a fighting breed or mix intent on killing your dog. Depending on where you live, Tommy Coyote's fear is very real, and these attacks seem to be happening with greater frequency.

 

ETA: I don't love all dogs. I love my dogs. I like dogs in general, but there are breeds that I would not own.

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Where a person is a real idiot is where they don't learn or won't learn, and criminal when they run away from responsibility.

 

^^This.

 

I knew a woman who had a vicious Ridgeback. This dog had almost been killed by the county for taking down a boy on a bicycle and injuring him, and was supposed to wear a muzzle at all times when out in public and be securely leashed.

 

She insisted on walking this dog without any leash (let alone muzzle) in public parks. If the dog saw another person or dog he would start to rush them, snarling, and the woman would run in front of the dog and face him with her arms spread out like an idiot, saying "no-no" in a nice little sing-song voice. It was horrifying. I told her after the first dog walk we took together what I thought of her technique. After that we never took a walk together again, nor were we friends.

 

Thanks for the pepper-spray-gel suggestion. I had not heard of it.

There is also the tactical baton, if legal where you live. Snap that out and swing it and most dogs will run from the sight.

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If you take your dogs out in public you need to be sure they will be ok with strangers approaching them. It is impossible to control the situation in a lot of cases. Kids just don't know to be careful. They will just run right up and try to hug the dog. And there are adults that will do the same thing.

 

If your dog is iffy you need to be sure that where you are going is safe for the dog and for the public that is out there where you are going. If a little kid runs up to hug the dog and your dog bites it will be your fault and you and your dog will both be in trouble. Or if your dog turns and bites an adult. Or if it turns on another dog.

 

It is your responsibility.

 

I had one really bad incident when I was walking two dogs. One was a hound cross and she was fine. The other one was a springer spaniel and he was dog aggressive. We were headed home when an elderly man opened his front door and his yorkie ran out and ran right for us. It was absolutely awful. That yorkie just kept coming back and coming back. I was desperately trying to hang on to the springer to keep it from killing the yorkie. Neither dog was backing down at all. I just sat down and grabbed the springer's collar so I good hold him better but I was wearing out fast. And, thank goodness, a neighbor ran out to help me. She was able to get the yorkie and I was able to get the dogs home.

 

And the owner's response: He wouldn't have hurt anything. But then she admitted that she couldn't hold the dogs when she had them out and the springer saw another dog. She had to turn around and go right back home with them. So she knew all along that the dog was impossible if it saw another dog.

 

And that was the end of my dog walking. Now I will only take customers who have a fenced back yard or who have little dogs that I can just walk around their yard and which I can pick up if there is trouble.

 

That doesn't always work. One of my customers had a small dog that she was walking out in front of her house. A much bigger loose dog ran up so she picker her dog up. But the loose dog kept trying to get the dog in her arms and it would not back off. She was screaming for help and a neighbor ran out to help her. She said it was just terrifying.

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I've also seen people with harnesses in neon color that have warnings on them stating to not pet the dog and so on which is a good idea for the reasons of children or stupid adults that will run up and pet or hug a dog the come across. My children know not to even ask to pet someone's dog for their own safety and to not approach them. Because you never know what could happen. I also agree that if your walking a dog you should be able to control them on a leash I've witness many people walking pit bulls and other dogs off leash and not just one they will have about two to three dogs and it's idiotic to me especially for the danger of cars to their dogs let alone them attacking someone else or another dog.

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Yes! Thank you for the example I love these even if your dog is friendly to keep your dog safe and to avoid putting them in a stressful situation.

The boy in the photo is Cash and the harness and tags are for a purpose. If strange ladies (but not men) come up to him and thrust their hand in his face, he will nip. The harness makes him look important and has an interesting effect on him; he knows he must be on best behaviour when in "uniform".

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That doesn't stop people. I had a fear aggressive dog and was living in an apartment, so leash walking was my only choice. I put a muzzle on him to try to deter people from coming near me. He would not bite, but I was hoping the visual cue would stop people from getting close and scaring him. (He has severe PTSD after being attacked by loose dogs.) Nope. Plenty of idiots tried to come over, insisting they or their dogs were friendly and could help rehab my dog. :angry:

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That doesn't stop people.

The general public are clueless about interacting with dogs, but my experience with Cash is that his harness really does help.

[ Cash is not fear aggressive. His nipping was a "keep your hands off me, lady" reaction. ]

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I have been known simply to be rude to people when walking a dog I know to be iffy or very fearful. Put out my hand in a "stop!" gesture, and say in a loud voice

"Don 't come near this dog!"

Accompanied by a severe scowl, that will keep even the most idiotic people away.

But I prefer just to cross the street, if I can. That is not always an option, but I can always move out of the way to let them go by, while holding the dog close to me. I have been fortunate enough never to have owned an iffy or biting dog, but have known some who were and occasionally took care of them

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Another awful attack hit the news yesterday. A woman had adopted a pit apparently from a rescue. She was just letting it meet her friend's dog. It attacked and killed the dog and both women were injured.

 

I wonder how much of this is due to the huge hue and cry from pit owners that pits are just misunderstood. They are really sweet and gentle. They are victims of bad press. It is all the owner's fault because the dogs were not raised right or the dogs were raised to be aggressive. I have heard that argument over and over and over. But then it hits the news that two pits who never showed any previous tendency toward aggression just attacked and killed a grandchild.

 

A lot of these dogs are really nice. But people that own them need to be aware of their potential for aggressiveness - especially dog aggressiveness and should take that into consideration when they have the dogs out in public. They seem to attack and kill or injure a lot more dogs than they do people.

 

I know there are zillions of these dogs out there. There are a ton of them just in my neighborhood. And only about 50 fatal attacks on humans each year. God knows, that is bad enough but when you consider the total number of dogs the percentage is really low. Unfortunately, when they do snap it is catastrophic. I wonder if there is predisposition in this breed for rage syndrome. That doesn't explain the cases where two or more dogs attack.

 

But according to my neighbors who own 2 pits these are just the most loyal, loving dogs on the face of the planet.

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