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Border Collie Wins Best of Group in National Dog Show

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This is really distressing to me, as it should be for anyone concerned with working border collies. I just hate seeing the ACK dogs getting this kind of attention. :(

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I thought that way for a long time. Fact is, there will always be good working breeders breeding good working dogs, and there will always be people breeding black and white imitations that prance around the ring with a little string around their fluffy neck with their handlers in flats, nude nylons, black skirts and pastel blouses at their side. The dogs are not even the same breed, and neither are the people.

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The dogs are not even the same breed, and neither are the people.

 

No, they're not. But since the ACK in its infinite wisdom refused to change the name of their different breed, it just continues to create confusion in the general public who know no better.

 

That's the problem.

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Nothing distressing in my opinion. Just irrelevant.

Someone put a ribbon on a dog he\she thinks is what a border collie should look like (not having the slightest idea of what a border collie should be).

As my sheep would say:"meh".

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Well in the gazillion discussions on this, it comes down to that the ABCA will not cut the apron strings in not allowing dual registration. $$$ talks.

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Yeah, I saw the walking stuffed toy of a border collie that won the herding group. I am sure he is a very sweet boy, but, for me, he didn't project the intelligence and intenseness I prefer. And I couldn't even begin to think about the grooming required.

 

When I tuned in, during the Best in Show class, one of the announcers commented that "this is a dog that needs to run all day" and that people shouldn't get one unless they can provide enough exercise. I was thrilled to hear that misinformation -- hopefully it turned off the casual pet owner.

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It wouldn't be in the ABCA's best interest, so it doesn't make good business sense to put the money behind it.

 

Are you meaning that it would result in a loss of registrations?

 

Of course it would, but I have to wonder if that's really their bottom line. I really don't know just how great an operating budget ABCA has to work with, but I don't think it's a particularly wealthy organization. And AFAIK personnel are limited.

 

But I haven't had a registered dog for quite a few years now, so am not privy to even the most general membership information.

 

Perhaps someone with more current knowledge would speak to this? (TIA)

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Wouldn't trade my two AKC Border Collies for the world - of course, they are nothing like the conformation dogs on display. Also plan to ABCA register both.

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I am sure he is a very sweet boy, but, for me, he didn't project the intelligence and intenseness I prefer. And I couldn't even begin to think about the grooming required.

 

Ditto. Did you notice the extreme fringes on the forelegs? I've never seen a border collie with anything like them before. :lol:

 

When I tuned in, during the Best in Show class, one of the announcers commented that "this is a dog that needs to run all day" and that people shouldn't get one unless they can provide enough exercise. I was thrilled to hear that misinformation -- hopefully it turned off the casual pet owner.

 

I chuckled at that too. :rolleyes: Yeah, let's hope it helped steer at least some people away.

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...plan to ABCA register both [AKC dogs].

 

Can you do that?

 

I know (or at least I think I know) that the ACK stud book is still open so that ABCA can be registered with ACK.

 

But unless something's changed recently, you can't reverse the process. (Again, I'd be grateful if someone with more current info would corroborate or correct me.)

 

I'm sure yours are lovely dogs. But absent breeding with an eye first and foremost for working ability, they're not well bred by our (working) standards.

 

I have a perfectly lovely rescue border collie. I have no idea what his breeding is and he's never had an opportunity to be tested on sheep (was taken to sheep only once by someone else shortly after I adopted him when he was still somewhat shut down and he showed no interest at the time), so I operate under the assumption that he wasn't well bred. And I tell people all the time that he's a great dog but a lousy border collie because (I assume, in order to make a point) that he can't work sheep.

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From the ABCA website:

 

Note: The ABCA does not recognize any registry that promotes conformation showing of Border Collies. Consequently, registration with the American Kennel Club, United Kennel Club, the Kennel Club (UK), Federation Cynologique Internationale, Australian or New Zealand Kennel Clubs, or any such body will not be accepted as a basis for registration with the ABCA. (http://americanbordercollie.org/registration.html)

ETA: I'll be interested to know whether your applications for registration are accepted.

 

ETA again:

 

Will you accept dogs registered with: South Central Registry, United Kennel Club, AKC, ARF, Continental Kennel Club, the (English) Kennel Club, various European Kennel Clubs? No. (http://americanbordercollie.org/FAQs.htm#AKC)

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Heartful, it is up to the breeder to register the entire litter with the ABCA.

A

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Heartful, in order for your dogs to receive registration with ABCA you have to be the breeder (bitch owner) or the bitch owner has to submit the application to ABCA. Having a dog out of two abca registered parents won't get you ABCA papers. If your dogs had ISDS papers, then you could get ABCA papers on them without the bitch owner doing anything.

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Chick-N-Picker, because a DNA analysis of the foundation show Border Collies that were brought into the USA were found to be a genetically distinct breed (because of genetic drift). They look and act different, so we honestly did not need science to prove what we already knew in our hearts.

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LizP I never knew that and is very interesting. So when I see a BC with a lot of hair like those showrooms they are technically a different breed? Or it just all USA BC's are different than the European dogs and looks play no role?

 

Still slightly confused.

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Chick-N-Picker - the two separate 'lines' of Border Collies have been bred drastically differently. Working bred Border Collies have been bred exclusively for working ability for forever, whereas the bench show "Border Collies" have been bred for how they look and not how they perform. The difference here is that working Border Collies are a breed because of what they can DO and never for what they look like. Therefore working Border Collies come in a huge variety of appearances because no one cared what they look like as long as they can do the work. They're bred for a working standard. The show lines are cookie cutter and are bred to a visual standard with no accountability for work, so they all look generally the same and are quite incapable when it comes to true stock work.

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LizP I never knew that and is very interesting. So when I see a BC with a lot of hair like those showrooms they are technically a different breed? Or it just all USA BC's are different than the European dogs and looks play no role?

 

Still slightly confused.

 

 

American working border collies are not different from European or UK working border collies. In fact, there is a good deal of "cross-pollination" among the working lines in the US, the UK and the Continent and imported bloodlines play an important role.

 

No, it's the "show" part of the breeding that creates the genetic difference. They've been bred as show dogs separate from the working lines for enough generations that this genetic separation occurs. Many of the AKC show dogs come from Australian and New Zealand show lines, plus the AKC lines themselves have been to each other, and it's been done so to the point that we see the genetic drift from the working dogs.

 

~ Gloria

P.S.

Just saw that Jaderbug posted essentially the same thing while I was typing. :)

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I've seen a genetic tree somewhere once upon a time that showed the split in the Border Collie along with some other breeds- does anyone have a link to that? I've been looking for it without any luck

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I believe some of that work was compiled by Melanie Change while she was with UC Davis. Not sure where the original article can be found.

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