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Maja

Cattledog finals - sorry , it's been probably asked before (by me)

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I can't find the answer, but i'm sure it's here somewhere. If I understand correctly: to participate in cattle-dog finals, the handler has to be a member of USBCHA and ABCA.

 

Does it mean that only border collies can participate in the finals?

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For the USBCHA Cattle Dog finals one does not need to be a member of the ABCA (according to part IV section C of the association rules).

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P.S. I am asking because this is what I had said in a discussion, and I was told that a person in the USBCHA said otherwise.

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There may be additional prize money available to ABCA members (from the ABCA) at the cattledog finals; there is at the sheepdog finals.

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Dear Maja,

 

The USBCHA hosts a "cattledog finals" and a "sheepdog finals". Both are open to any breed, either sex, registered or unregistered. Not all cattledogs nor sheepdogs are Border Collies. The vast majority are.

 

Donald McCaig

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Mark, this is where the confusion has come in with regard to ABCA Membership to compete in the cattledog finals, see number 4 of 2016 entry form

 

 

http://usbcha.com/assoc/forms/national_cattle_entry_form_2016.pdf

Yes, that's it, I think. Thank you Debbie.

 

You must be a current ABCA member to run at the National Finals. The dog must be registered with the ABCA to be eligible for ABCA prize money.

 

So if I understand correctly that would mean that the handler has to be registered at ABCA (and I assume that to be a member one does not have to own a BC to be a member) and that if e.g. I get to the finals with a non-ABCA dog, and I win something, I don't get the cash prize.

 

Do you know how common is the participation of non-border collies in USBCHA sanctioned trials? I assume that a non-registered BC would get ROM-ed when it shows potential, since why lose the prize money when the dog is good enough to get it. But what about non-border collies? Are there any out there?

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That should read Maja not Mama. My mama was not into dogs.

The auto-correct is is one of my most favorive recent inventions :)

 

This is what I found on the sponsorship page which answers my question about non-border collies to a large extent:

 

Dog/Handler Team sponsorships are a great way to support a handler you know personally or support a breed that you love. In past years we have had not only border collies, but also Kelpies, Australian Shepherd and rescue dogs compete. The USBCHA Cattledog Finals is open to any breed of working dog, the only requirement is that they qualify via one of the many qualifying trials held through out the nation.

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the majority of ranchers i know have unreg. crossbred dogs

They are still breeding for

reach

power

cover

good feet

heat tolerance

health

good temperment

Some breed great dogs -some not so much- some have bred for generations

Most have large % of border collie

most that I know are running range cattle in the mountains

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I have not asked either of the two handlers that I know of that run kelpies that have placed high enough to be in the ABCA money to see if they received any, I would suspect they did. The secretary of ABCA would be who you would ask on that. Larry Painter won, reserve champion nursery in 2014 year with his kelpie. http://americanbordercollie.org/

 

In past we have had kelpies, aussies and a cattlemaster cross and yes, a unregistered rescue dog. The paragraph you found about the other breeds is one I wrote.

 

No, the non registered did not automatically get a ROM, the owner would still need to go through the application process. She did place in the top 20 one year.

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I get to the finals with a non-ABCA dog, and I win something, I don't get the cash prize.

There are two different cash purses, one from the USBCHA and then the 2nd from the ABCA. You get USBCHA regardless.

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Do you know how common is the participation of non-border collies in USBCHA sanctioned trials?

we see them from time to time but not often. The most competitive are the Kelpies and the ones with cattlemaster in them from out of Oklahoma. Their owners just call them "unregistered dogs" now, high percentage border collie and most have papers on them from the Working Cow Dog Assoc. http://www.workingcowdog.com/

I assume that a non-registered BC would get ROM-ed when it shows potential, since why lose the prize money when the dog is good enough to get it.

No, non registered does not get a ROM regardless of how well it competes, the owner would still need to go through the application process and meet what ever requirements the board of directors impose.

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No, the non registered did not automatically get a ROM, the owner would still need to go through the application process. She did place in the top 20 one year.

I didn't mean to sound like they automatically are ROM-ed, I meant that if the dog is that good and it's an unreg. border collie or mostly border collie, the handler would be likely to ROM the dog and it would run in the Finals as a reg ABCA dog.

 

This is all great information, thank you. I remembered that there were some special cattle dogs popular among cattle ranchers, it must have been these cattle masters. Is there a good place to look at them on the Internet?

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most ranchers i know are not on internet

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I don't know of anyone that has run with a non abca registered dog that has gone on to get a ROM on their dog. So no, not likely.

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So how was it possible to add an additional requirement to entry form for the cattle finals that is not listed in the usbcha rules for entering the cattle finals? Are the rules listed on line not up to date?

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I appreciate the confusion that the rules may cause so hopefully I can clarify.

 

You must be a member of the ABCA to run in either Finals. You need to be a member of the USBCHA to run in a trial to qualify but you do not need to be an ABCA member just to qualify. However, you must join prior to running. Your dog must be registered with the ABCA only to receive ABCA prize money. A non-registered dog may run, and win; it just doesn't get as much prize money.

 

Under Part I of the Rules, which applies to both Sheep and Cattle Finals, it states the following:

 

Members must be in good standing to earn points towards participation in the USBCHA Open Finals and qualifying legs for the USBCHA Nursery Finals. To participate in the USBCHA National Finals, one must also be a member in good standing of the American Border Collie Association (ABCA).

Part IV.C (which are the cattle rules) are not inconsistent. It states that you must be a USBCHA member to receive qualification and then comply with the Rules (which includes Part I).

This could certainly be more clear and I will suggest that we include the membership language for the finals in both Part III (sheepdog finals) and Part IV (cattle dog finals).

 

The reason for this is that the ABCA is our partner in both Finals, contributing significant funds. Neither Finals would happen without the ABCA's sponsorship and partnership. As far as I know, this has been the rule for some time, but I obviously haven't been around that long.

 

I hope this helps, and I will take this opportunity to once again thank the ABCA for its generous support.

 

Thank you.

Carol Clawson

USBCHA

 

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That's cool....love you guys.

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I was going to say that the cattledog finals rules have a "in addition to" clause, so the ABCA membership requirement applies but Carol better clarified. Thanks Carol!!!

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Thank you Carol for the final clarification. It is all clear to me now.

 

 

(and I'm am glad I was right :) )

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