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Hazel isn't getting better...


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It appears that you have gone as far as you can with your current vet(s) and your choices are to have the dog evaluated by a specialist(s), continue to treat the dog symptomatically, or euthanize her. If you are going to continue to treat her symptomatically, you can do a MUCH better job with pain control by adding other drugs to the mix that have different mechanisms of action than NSAIDs. If your vet can't help you there, you need a new vet anyway.

 

You had mentioned that you are doing rehab exercises with the dog. If you are not already doing so, these need to be performed under the supervision of a rehab professional (a rehab DVM can also help with pain control). If done incorrectly or if the wrong exercises are performed, matters can be made much worse.

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Well the last couple days I have done something different with hazel. I didn't take her out for any exercise one day, because I was just too busy. I had been scrupulously taking her for short, leashed walks on grass thinking the exercise was good for her. And it was at first - she got better when I started it. Gait improved, more playful etc. The day after no exercise, she woke up a different dog - no behavior troubles, sweet, wanted to play (she hasnt brought me a toy in weeks.) About an hour later, she got real bratty again - countersurfing, mouthy, chewing everything in sight (which is a lot when you are unpacking...)

 

So I crated her. She went down for a nap without a complaint. Slept a good four hours, then came out a normal, happy dog. The rest of the day I did the same thing and figured out she can handle about 30 minutes to an hour of REALLY mild activity. Like normal walking around the house activity. Then she gets bratty and needs a nap.

 

Conclusion: Poor dog is probably in much more pain then she is letting on. Boy are these guys good at hiding what they are feeling. She can't handle even basic household activity and thats whats been causing the acting out. When I look back on her puppyhood it makes sense to me now, and I feel like an idiot for not seeing it sooner. She grew out of mouthyness, but would still hook her canine tooth around your finger if you pet her sometimes, and just hold your hand very gently. I thought it was a puppy issue that we couldnt figure out, but she was probably just nicely removing our hands from her when she was in pain. Shes always hated brushing, but likes petting, the pressure from the brush on her is too much. Shes always hated linoleum. Ugh. Why did I think all these things were quirks? Its hard to see with a young dog that doesnt let on she is in pain in more obvious ways I guess.

 

We will be putting her down soon. If she cant handle walking around a house without needing to act out in pain, then I need to do the kind thing and let her go. It brings me some peace that I was able to see the real hazel again for a few minutes a day yesterday and this morning. She even wants to do her service work again when she is freshly rested. Shes a good, faithful dog, and I have missed her real personality. She was there for me when I needed her most, and its time for me to be there for her now.

 

The only thing I am concerned about is making the appointment to euthanize her... We dont know any vets here. We are going to call and make an appointment, and then bring this dog who is happy and wiggly off of adrenaline and they are going to be like "THIS is the dog you want to put down...?" I'm not sure how to handle it. I am already dreading the call enough and choking up as I type.

 

On a hopeful note, our trainer has a 10 month old bernedoodle who needs a home and has a suitable temperament (besides breeding and training she also rescues dogs who are surrendered to her, or sometimes pulls them from kill lists. She trains them, then adopts them out for a couple hundred dollars with unlimited group training with her for the life of the dog.) We are looking at flying him out here and doing a trial to be sure he is suitable for me, getting him health checked and xrayed etc... I'm scared to get a dog from unknown lines, but honestly it is great timing, and it would be so much easier than a puppy. I wanted a bernese anyway, and this cross will live much longer than a bernese and still have their size and personality. Seems like the most common problems with this cross are eye, hip, and elbow problems which a quick vet visit and xrays should rule out. Cross your fingers we can get it to work out.

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I am sympathetic to your situation. And at first was on board with your decision to euthanize her. But now you are talking about FLYING a dog out for a TRIAL, getting xrays and health check. Making an assumption that because this dog is a Bernese cross it will live longer. All wild card factors for it to become your service dog. But yet you don't have any more money to invest in finding out what is really going on with Hazel. I realize she will never be your service dog but....

 

Now I'm feeling like Hazel isn't getting a fair shake. There is something more going on. And I'm feeling really sad now. She needs a SPECIALIST to evaluate her. Give her a fighting chance! Please find someone or an organization that can help!

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Any new dog I get is going to have to be xrayed and fully vetted since it will be doing mobility work. Its harsh, but that money has to go to that regardless of what happens to hazel. She can't be a service dog ever again, I have to meet my needs first. Her hip is shot no matter if she has an underlying condition or not. The vets comment was "the xray is a bit blurry, but its very clear that her right hip is VERY different from her left and is completely unsound.) Is a diagnosis of something else going to fix that hip? No. I can feel it pop out of its socket every time she takes a step and I cant keep watching her in pain. Our vet said the only thing to do (about the hip) was put her on pain management or surgery or euthanasia. She has been on a couple of different pain management options, and none of them helped much. Or if they did she quickly got used to them and they stopped working. If I could find a way to fix her I would in a heartbeat. But a diagnosis for all the other random things isnt going to fix her bone structure is it? What exactly do you expect a specialist to do? My husband is flying back (for FREE, paid for by work) anyway in a couple of weeks and would be able to assess the new dog. I guess in my excitement over not being stuck alone all summer with this crappy situation I didnt fully explain.

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Also, I feel like I'm getting a ton of differnt messages on this board. I've heard "get an adult, getting a puppy wanting it to be a service animal is a bad idea" "get a rescue and just have it vetted" a ton of times. Now that I finally have that opportunity, I am being criticized for it? I've been looking for an adult replacement for a while now, but adopting a young dog with the temperament needed for public access is REALLY hard. Dogs are mostly surrendered as unwanted pups, behavior problems, unhealthy, or old. None of these are suitable. Plenty of mobility SD organizations use bernese poodle or bernese lab mixes precisely because they are even tempered, longer lived, and big enough of mobility work.

 

No offense, but you have no idea the independence that a SD gives me. Getting a 10 month old can have me with a dog of hazels age and training with only a summers worth of work that I have plenty of time for. The dogs behavior is suitable according to my professional trainer, it is just untrained. It looks sound, but of course you need x rays to be sure, and even in a well bred dog from known lines, xrays are the ONLY responsible way to be sure a dog is suited for mobility work.

 

Dealing with this is hard enough. Losing my best friend who was with me 24/7 until recently sucks enough. Please dont judge me for not funneling more time, money, and emotional energy I just dont have into her, when it more than likely wont go anywhere, and I have a legitimate need for a new service animal. If I could do both, I would. If you haven't had a service dog, you have no idea the bond that forms from that kind of relationship. If I thought for a second more investigation would help her, and not just let her pain drag on, then I would do it.

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I'm very sorry for you. I have been following your other thread, and now this one. I just wanted to say that I am very sorry, and I am glad she could be her normal self, even briefly. Good luck to you and what you choose to do, I'm sure this is horribly upsetting. :(

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I would suggest having the new dog vetted before putting him on the plane. That will save you the expense (and emotional heartbreak) of returning the dog, if the dog doesn't vet.

 

Of course, passing a vet exam with flying colors does not guarantee that the new dog won't develop health or soundness problems. Please consider if you have the resources to care for the new dog if something should happen to it.

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At 10 months old, you will want PennHIP to determine if the pup has HD or is clear. You also want to have elbows and shoulders checked. The radiographs need to be reviewed by a boarded surgeon.

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I am sympathetic to your situation. And at first was on board with your decision to euthanize her. But now you are talking about FLYING a dog out for a TRIAL, getting xrays and health check. Making an assumption that because this dog is a Bernese cross it will live longer. All wild card factors for it to become your service dog. But yet you don't have any more money to invest in finding out what is really going on with Hazel. I realize she will never be your service dog but....

 

Now I'm feeling like Hazel isn't getting a fair shake. There is something more going on. And I'm feeling really sad now. She needs a SPECIALIST to evaluate her. Give her a fighting chance! Please find someone or an organization that can help!

I agree with the above. Maybe see if a border collie rescue can take her in and get her the help she needs. Putting down a dog who can have a surgery to help her isn't really fair. Call around, send some emails, do something. She is young and may have a chance at a healthy life.

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I'm really uncomfortable with surgery. Maybe its been my misfortune to meet too many dogs recently that have had the surgery, and STILL cant run or live normally. we are talking a 12k surgery here. Even if cost were no issue at all, you'd be looking at doing one hip, a six month difficult recovery, and then turning around and doing it again with the other. Is all that pain and suffering fair to her when she has no idea what's going on?? We are talking a year long process here. Maybe someone here has had experience with it that can enlighten me. All I know is that I have met three dogs with hip replacements. None had a normal life. One had bad complications that made the recovery process even longer and more painful. This is why I haven't been considering surgery as an option (also there is no way I could come up with 12k, 2 probably, 12, no.) Shes too old for the less invasive surgeries, so the only option is THR.

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FWIW, I can understand your reasons for putting Hazel aside as a service dog and getting a new SD. ALL dogs are a crapshoot, and I agree with getting an older dog (i.e. more than 6-9 months old) that shows promise for a SD career.

 

I agree that getting it vetted before flying it out to you will save a return trip if he fails the physical evaluation. PennHip is the only hip evaluation I would trust for a dog this young. If he passes that, then fly him out to you for a period of time.A psychological evaluation and a 'will it fit my needs?' evaluation will require more time since it is subjective vs. an objective Xray evaluation.

 

I like the idea of trying to find a rescue for Hazel. If someone steps up that can manage her pain and activity, it sounds like she can have a decent life. But that is still to be determined.

 

If you do decide to euthanize her, I would look for a mobile vet to come to my home. My last dog that I brought to the vet for euthanizing was so over-the-top stressed out that I did not feel good about how 'things went down' so to speak. The vet and tech did all the right things, but the environment was just very stressful for her. I would have preferred that someone come to my home which would have saved the stress of a car ride and going into the vet's office.

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Since Hazel is so young, she may be a good candidate for surgery. Like I said, if she has a chance at a long, happy, healthy life, why not give it a shot and see if a rescue is willing to help her out. It wouldn't hurt to ask around. Maybe she doesn't even need surgery if she sees a specialist and they find out something easier.

 

If I found someone who was willing to help her and give her a chance, would you be willing to relinquish her?

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Please pursue handing her over to a rescue. If you can find a rescue that will take her in, that is the best way to make sure you have done everything you can for Hazel considering your situation.

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I will side with you whichever way you pick, as I can see merit in all situations. I do NOT envy your situation.

 

Given the new information, it sounds like perhaps the hip really is her only problem. Sensitivity to petting may just be an extension of her hypersensitivity to that hip. Given that she's so young, maybe there really is a chance that someone could get her the help she needs. I think there are places which will do the surgery for much less than 12k. It's clear that you can't do the surgery, as money only goes so far and you need a service dog. But, if there's potential for someone else to give her the help she needs, I don't think it would be a bad idea to surrender her to a rescue.

 

She's a well behaved, young, flashy colored purebred. She'd be adopted in a flash.

 

I was thinking something systemic was going on, but perhaps it really just is that problem. Do you have a photo of the radiograph?

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Has anyone offered you FHO surgery? It sounds wild, to remove the ball of the hip joint, but I've done the procedure numerous times and dogs do amazingly well. It's easy, recovery is short, and depending on where you live, more like $1000 price tag.

 

I am very sorry for your situation. Just wanted to suggest something you may not have considered.

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FHO worked great on my old BC. He had it at about age 1 1/2 and lived to 17. Was able to run and play. Only restriction was agility.

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I hope that you do not feel overly criticized by what anyone is saying here. Everyone, most likely, has only your and the dog's best interests at heart. My feeling is that whatever you decide is very likely to be what is best for you and for your dog, because you are certainly not making any of these decisions lightly. You have come for help and support, and I hope that you feel you have found it here. I support you in whatever decision you make.

 

I will second the idea of having a mobile vet come to the house if you do decide on euthanasia. But not all mobile vets are the same; not all are good. I have had one who was wonderful: did everything exactly right and made the whole experience better by her presence. And I had one who was coarse, insensitive, showed up a half hour late, wasted time asking stupid questions, and made the experience worse. If at all possible, get recommendations from people on who to choose, which I know is hard when you are new somewhere. But maybe even ask someone in the town you came from; there might be a network of vets who do that kind of work, and one good one might know of another elsewhere.

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Her hip is shot no matter if she has an underlying condition or not. The vets comment was "the xray is a bit blurry, but its very clear that her right hip is VERY different from her left and is completely unsound.) Is a diagnosis of something else going to fix that hip? No. I can feel it pop out of its socket every time she takes a step and I cant keep watching her in pain.

 

I haven't read any of your prior threads on the board, so forgive me if this has been answered, but did the vet diagnose HD based on a "bit blurry" xray? Are they sure it's HD and not a hip luxation caused by something else? A friend's BC suffered a hip luxation injury and was able to totally rehab with the help of a good sports vet. Have any other issues been considered? I don't know... I just can't see recommending euthanasia if the quote above is what you're going off of. :mellow: The dog needs to see an ortho specialist or good rehab/sports vet.

 

It truly sounds as if something else is going on, combined with typical one year old inattentiveness and brattiness. (I know, I have a 14 month old) I really hope that you might consider a specialist, or relinquishing her to a rescue if one can be found. She's so young.

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A follow-up on mobile vets for euthanasia: you may like to ask whatever vet you use to prescribe an oral dose of sedative that you can administer at home ahead of time. Some vets feel comfortable doing this, others may not, and it's hard to know if anyone near you would do this without having an established relationship with you and Hazel. I think it would be worth calling around to see. I think the whole situation is better for dog, owner, and even vet if the dog is heavily sedated before you even begin.

 

I feel for you.

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I don't envy your situation at all, and I understand that you need a service dog. However, if relinquishing her to a rescue who can handle her hip issues is a possibility, I think it's worth doing so. I understand you need a service dog, although I'm a little surprised by how much she was doing at such a young age (it sounds like she was working in a service capacity, not just training?), and am concerned about you taking on another dog when you can't afford to follow up on veterinary needs for this one. Maybe at this point, getting a dog trained and vetted by an established organization, and finding funding for the fee that they charge is a good option. Going through multiple dogs and not having the resources to really vet them (not just initially, but throughout their lives), isn't fair to the dogs. Or you.

 

FWIW, I'd be cautious about the bernedoodle. My labradoodle died of spontaneous liver failure at 5 years old. I don't know how else to describe it. The e-vet and my regular vet never identified a cause, 10,000 dollars, 5 days, and 16 pages of treatment summary later.The only experience I've heard that sounds close, is an acquaintance of a friend had a poodle mix with almost the same thing happen at a young age. That dog was diagnosed with something called lobular necrotizing hepatitis. In my "torture myself and try to figure this out" research, it seems possible that's what happened to our dog.

 

No dog's a guarantee, but after having a doodle, and knowing many, I'm not convinced one would be sound enough personality wise, or healthy enough.

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