Australian Reds?

[bcchantal]

Hello!

 

I live in The Netherlands and I am planning to move to Idaho. However, I have always wanted an Australian Red Border Collie. I found a great breeder in Belgium a while ago, but since I want to move to the United States it wouldn't be an option. Does anyone of you know if there are Australian Red breeders in or near Idaho? Thanks in advance!

[Cass C]

I am in Idaho and there are no breeders around here for Australian Red BCs. Also to my knowledge working breeders of that particular mutation are very few and far between. It may be helpful for you to read the READ THIS FIRST section of the board so you understand where the people on this board stand about non-working BC breeders (Including color breeders, show breeders, or even sports breeders, which is where you will find the majority of Australian Red BCs). My gold dog resembles one but was a shelter puppy and is most likely a mix with another breed.

[Gloria Atwater]

I live in Nevada, just below Idaho, and I've never heard of an "Australian Red" border collie. There are some red working border collies out there, but many or most tend to be from cattle-bred lines and they are just called plain ol' red border collies. Or else they are from agility/sport breeding and not working dogs.

Anything that's called by a fancy name is probably going to be from a color breeder who just breeds BCs for looks, not the work, and that's not what this forum is about. The best thing to do is look for the best dog and let the colors fall as they may.

As Cass said, you might want to check out the Read This First thread so that you understand the philosophy of this group.
http://www.bordercollie.org/boards/index.php?showannouncement=1&f=7

Best regards,

~ Gloria

[bcchantal]

Thanks! And yes I have read that

Australian Reds are good for sports and work as well though, just like any other Border Collie

[Cass C]

Thanks! And yes I have read that

Australian Reds are good for sports and work as well though, just like any other Border Collie

The problem doesn't lie with inability to work, but rather being a very rare color in the working world due to working breeders not breeding for special 'candy' colors. You are more likely to find those dogs from sport or show breeders who have a much different definition of 'working'.

[Sue R]

Welcome!

 

"...just like any other Border Collie." All Border Collies are definitely *not* created equal.

 

You might wish to reread the "Read this first" and the previous posts. Although it's what's on the inside, not the outside, that counts, there are extremely few Australian Reds in the working dog population and anyone who breeds for a particular color is not really breeding for a quality working-bred dog, with almost no exceptions.

 

I hope that you consider looking for the right, responsibly-bred pup rather than a certain color as an important criterion.

 

Also, since you seem interested in dog for sports, have you considered a rescue dog or pup?

[Sue R]

What Cass C said!

[GentleLake]

Welcome to the Boards.

 

Breeding for a particular color, especially such a rare color as Australian red, isn't going to produce consistently good working dogs. If it did, you'd see a lot more of the candy colored dogs on the trials fields or working on farms and ranches. And if you look, with rare exceptions you're not going to find them there.

 

Heck, people who have no other criterion than working ability have a hard enough time consistently producing excellent working dogs.

 

So you won't fine a reputable breeder who's trying to produce Australian reds.

 

"Just like any other border collie" is a catch phrase for people who want you to disregard what it really means to responsibly breed working dogs.

 

And, no, sports does not fit the definition of work for border collies.

[bcchantal]

Welcome!

 

"...just like any other Border Collie." All Border Collies are definitely *not* created equal.

 

You might wish to reread the "Read this first" and the previous posts. Although it's what's on the inside, not the outside, that counts, there are extremely few Australian Reds in the working dog population and anyone who breeds for a particular color is not really breeding for a quality working-bred dog, with almost no exceptions.

 

I hope that you consider looking for the right, responsibly-bred pup rather than a certain color as an important criterion.

 

Also, since you seem interested in dog for sports, have you considered a rescue dog or pup?

 

I haven't but it's definitely a great option. I've always dreamt about rescueing!

[Sue R]

You will find many folks here with beloved, active dogs from rescue and great support and advice about adopting from rescue and having a rewarding relationship with your dog. It is a great option to consider if you want a companion or sport partner, and some even make great livestock working dogs.

[Tommy Coyote]

Murray from the TV series Mad Bout You is an Australian Red border collie.

 

They are a true e/e- red or golden color. And if they are bred to golden retrievers the puppies are black.

 

They are called Australian Red because there are more of them in Australia than anywhere else. They are not common in the US and Canada. And they appear to be very heavy coated.

 

Actually, the pictures look a lot like American show border collies but they are red and white or gold and white.

 

I was just curious. It looks they are mostly sports dogs.

 

Apparently this is a very old strain and may have been crossed to get golden retrievers way back when?

[juliepoudrier]

You'll find the color among breeders of conformation dogs and some sport bred dogs. I've never seen a truly working bred dog (that is, both parents actually working stock at some advanced level, not including AKC trials) in ee red. That's not to say they don't exist, but I'd be surprised to find any.

 

J.

[Lawgirl]

Not to throw a spanner in the works, but the owner of the sheepdog herding school I went to has a smooth coat Australian red (aka e/e red, wheaten etc) border collie who is his main working dog on his farm and also his main trialling dog.

 

Of course, this may be the exception which proves the rule, and as we are in Australia the colour is more common.

[Tommy Coyote]

I wondered if some could work. I just didn't see any pictures of working dogs. And I didn't see any smoothes.

 

Did the dog you saw work true border collie style or was it more of a looser style. Maybe more hunt a way style?

 

These dogs are different from the liver colored or chocolate dogs that you see here in the states. These dogs are gold to cream colored. Different genetics.

[Liz P]

An Australian red (ee red) from a quality breeder of working lines in the USA would be so rare that you may as well assume you are going to retire by winning the lottery. I have seen ABCA registered ee red pups from color puppy mils and backyard breeders. Honestly, I would not trust those papers. I see plenty from imported Australian show line breeders. I have never, in my more than 20 years with the breed, seen an ee red pop up in a working bred litter.

 

So I guess it comes down to your priority. Color? Or getting a good pup from a responsible breeder?

[airbear]

Murray from the TV series Mad Bout You is an Australian Red border collie.

He's actually a mix of border collie and lassie collie. Which has very little to do with fancy-coloured border collies. Carry on!

[GentleLake]

Murray from the TV series Mad Bout You is an Australian Red border collie.

 

The dog's name is Maui and is said to be a 58# (rough) collie cross adopted from a shelter.

 

Actually, I wonder if he might have been an English shepherd or mix thereof.

[Tommy Coyote]

Here's the link: http://retrieverman.net/tag/australian-red-border-collies/

 

This on might be better. I don't know anything about retrieverman.

 

http://bordercolliemuseum.org/BCLooks/Tan/Tan.html They do look just like the dog on the TV show. Lots of pictures here.

[GentleLake]

Who knows who's right? http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1214446/bio?ref_=nm_ov_bio_sm

 

ETA: Sorry. I thought you were referring to Maui before I clicked on the second link.

[juliepoudrier]

Not to throw a spanner in the works, but the owner of the sheepdog herding school I went to has a smooth coat Australian red (aka e/e red, wheaten etc) border collie who is his main working dog on his farm and also his main trialling dog.

 

Of course, this may be the exception which proves the rule, and as we are in Australia the colour is more common.

I assumed we were talking about the US, since the OP mentioned moving to Idaho and looking for an ee red dog. She's unlikely to find an ee red working dog here in the states.

 

J.

[Tommy Coyote]

Julie, some of the dogs in the Border Collie Museum pictures were working dogs so some of them must have some working ability.

 

I am not a genetics expert by a long shot but I think it said that this is a very old trait and can be masked for generations in black and whites, reds and merles and then pop up up again. I'm wondering if it is like the merles that used to pop up on occasion in the old lines.

 

They are very pretty dogs.

 

Would that work with reds. Aren't they already a double recessive. It's probably more complicated than that.

[Lawgirl]

Tommy Coyote, the dog I am talking about seemed to me to work like a Border Collie (not that I am in any way expert) at a distance, using eye and stalk. No barking, no close approach. The sheep respected the dog but seemed calm around him.

He has apparently placed at least three times in sheep herding trials in Australia.

[dsmbc]

I have only seen Austrialian Reds in conformation lines in the US. there is a woman locally that breeds them. though they have very sweet personalities, they are show bred, not working bred. I would be very surprised if you found a working bred Austrialian red in the US.

[juliepoudrier]

Tommy, FWIW, merles don't just "pop up." Merle is dominant, so if there's a gene for merle the dog would be merle. Red (liver) and Australian red are both recessive and so could pop up, skipping generations.

 

And I went back and looked at the BC Museum page on Australian red border collies. I think there were two dogs on there that were said to work, a distinct minority, and I don't think either was known to be purebred. Most of the dogs pictured were in fact from Australia (with a couple from the UK), and many of the others were found or shelter dogs of unknown heritage. I don't think anything on that page serves to dispute my comments about ee reds not being found in the working dog population in the U.S.

 

J.

[juliepoudrier]

Lawgirl,

Again, I am talking about working dogs in the United States, not Australia. The situation could be very different in your country. But the OP is here in the U.S. and said she was looking for an ee red working dog here. I don't think she'll find one.

 

Here in the U.S., at least at the trials I've been to, I have not seen an ee red dog, not at any level, from novice to open. I'm referring to USBCHA type trials. I imagine you could see them at AKC trials since the color is selected for by breeders of KC type dogs. But I and most other people who raise stock and work dogs don't consider conformation dogs to be working bred. Not now. Not ever.