Agility-What contact to teach

[aschlemm]

Hi,

I have a two-fold question. What contact in agility do you teach and why? Is one easier than another depending on type of dog? Also, recommendations on a good agility book (like a starting sequences workbook.) Thanks.

[mum24dog]

2on 2off is easier for a beginner to teach because the criteria are relatively simple to understand for both dog and handler.

 

If I had the time and opportunity I would teach both 2on 2off and running as they are both useful but if I had to choose one it would be the former as it is more flexible.

 

Yes, type of dog is a factor. I don't believe in plugging away trying to teach something that is in fashion if it doesn't suit a dog's conformation.

 

Whichever method you choose you should be aiming at drive to the end of the contact and 100 per cent success rate. Don't settle for less.

 

I have a 15 year old little dog that could have been a champion if I'd taught her reliable running dog walk contacts instead of the fingers crossed type. A frames were fine as her natural stride HD her hurdle the apex one touch contact and off almost every time - no training required.

[airbear]

I teach the teeter first, as I have this weird thing that if I start with the dogwalk, and then introduce the teeter, the dog is going to think I lied to him about the running thing LOL! I also find the teeter quite easy and straightforward to teach so I have started with that for my last two dogs, while I mull over how to teach the dogwalk.

 

And this isn't a book but I really enjoyed this DVD from Silvia Trkman. There aren't courses, per se, but lots of fun foundation things that you can do with your new agility dog.

[Root Beer]

Every time I set out to teach a 2 on 2 off, I come to the point where I decide I really want a running contact because I am leary of the long term effects of the stop at the bottom of the A-Frame. I know this is a matter of legitimate debate, but that is just where I always end up. (Actually, with Tessa, I changed to running because the stop slowed her down way too much, but that was specific to Tessa).

 

I have come to realize that I prefer running so contact, so that is what I now go with.

[CptJack]

I do 2o2o because I'm fairly inexperienced, the criteria is clear for the dog and I really benefit from the dog freaking pausing on the contacts in most situations.

Though truthfully my little dog has a 4 on pause and while that is wrong as heck and not something I'd EVER advise anyone train it works for my particular little dog.

[alligande]

I have 2o2o. The primary reason is I have a big fast dog and I can not envision a way I could handle a lot of courses without the stop. The secondary reason is that it takes a lot of repetition to get a good running and I did not have access to equipment to train a running contact. I will be getting a puppy this year and I think I will train 2o2o as a foundation behaviour and have a go at teaching running as a secondary one, but I am still not sold on running as a solution to joint problems due to the number of reps to get it reliable. I currently have access to equipment whenever I want so have options.

Airbear, I like your concept of seesaw first, I am going to file that away.

[airbear]

Oh. Duh. I get now what the OP means about what to teach first LOL! OK, on that I have no opinion. I am a running contacts gal, and while Rex does have a stop on the DW, I've never used it in a trial. We are not fans of stopping. Except for the table. That is his favourite obstacle!

 

... but I am still not sold on running as a solution to joint problems due to the number of reps to get it reliable. I currently have access to equipment whenever I want so have options.

 

For me (and this is only my experience where dataset is n=1), I did not have to do very many reps to get a dogwalk. We did 15 sessions, with maybe 10-12 efforts per session, to get a full-height RDW. It happened over a month or so, and we took breaks when it rained, when we had to get ready for sheepdog trials, and IIRC, when the hockey playoffs started. But I have heard the other side of hundreds of reps a week, so yeah, I would be leery if I had to do those kinds of numbers. Also, we rarely practice the dogwalk and it hasn't fallen apart, as people warned me it would.

[Chan]

For me (and this is only my experience where dataset is n=1), I did not have to do very many reps to get a dogwalk. We did 15 sessions, with maybe 10-12 efforts per session, to get a full-height RDW. It happened over a month or so, and we took breaks when it rained, when we had to get ready for sheepdog trials, and IIRC, when the hockey playoffs started. But I have heard the other side of hundreds of reps a week, so yeah, I would be leery if I had to do those kinds of numbers. Also, we rarely practice the dogwalk and it hasn't fallen apart, as people warned me it would.

 

I feel fairly confident in stating that this is atypical

 

I'm pretty sure if you could duplicate this experience easily with other dogs you could quit your day job and just hire yourself out to teach RC to other people's dogs

[aschlemm]

Thanks for the info! My first two Borders had (crossed fingers) running contacts. My current two I'm trying the 2o2o, the younger dog isn't too bad but the older one just doesn't get it. I was concerned about it being hard on his joints but I think we really just need to work harder. I feel certain a running contact would just make him more likely to blow the contact entirely and probably injure himself.

[mum24dog]

I teach the teeter first, as I have this weird thing that if I start with the dogwalk, and then introduce the teeter, the dog is going to think I lied to him about the running thing LOL! I also find the teeter quite easy and straightforward to teach so I have started with that for my last two dogs, while I mull over how to teach the dogwalk.

 

And this isn't a book but I really enjoyed this DVD from Silvia Trkman. There aren't courses, per se, but lots of fun foundation things that you can do with your new agility dog.

I know of trainers who recommend teaching the seesaw first for the reason you do.

 

I haven't in the past and it hasn't caused an issue with the dw when the seesaw has been introduced but in those days we were using wooden contacts with a sanded surface.

 

Our youngster has had a transitory problem when he reaches the top of the up plank of the dw where he has been looking uncertain and I have noticed others doing the same. I wonder whether a contributory factor is that contacts are mainly rubber coated aluminium nowadays and they have more bounce. He's getting over it now though.

[Cass C]

I actually introduced the dog walk before the teeter and after Lily realized the teeter moved (which triggered major fear issues) and it kinda looked like the dog walk she lost all confidence on the dog walk and wouldn't even try to go up it without a lot of encouragement. It took several months so seperate the two issues, and as of last weekend she is finally running her dog walk and accepting the teeter moves and that's OK!

 

If I had to do it again I would teach the teeter first, because she seemed to lose some trust in me after her first teeter experience. It's better now, but not worth the risk in my next dog. Given that Lily is a naturally fearful dog, which probably led to the issue, but why risk it?

[Root Beer]

Although we didn't really "teach the teeter first", Tessa was introduced to a board that moved slightly at the same time that she started going over stable planks. I think that worked very well. She knew from the start that "sometimes they move and sometimes they don't". Even though she progressed on the dog walk much faster than she did on the teeter, she always knew that there would be moving boards and she never went through a stage where she was wary of the dog walk.

 

With Bandit I am also working on the two concurrently.