Shine On Posted January 14, 2016 Report Share Posted January 14, 2016 Hello, new on here! I have a 3 year old male border collie. He is mainly a pet that gets to use his natural herding instincts to run around my goat pen (he has helped herd them here and there, but I am not into training for that.) I would like to get into agility or Frisbee one day, probably not with my boy though. He needed surgery when he was younger and I'm thankful he is still alive! So, he gets to be our farm dog/pet. My question is, who is a reputable breeder in the MD/PA surrounding areas? I don't want to go through an unhealthy puppy experience again! I really want a good active family dog, hopefully I can do agility or Frisbee with one day too. Main concern is healthy and friendly family dog though. Thanks for any help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alchemist Posted January 14, 2016 Report Share Posted January 14, 2016 One fairly large-scale breeder in MD is Branchwater Border Collies; I wouldn't recommend them. I will note that there are *no* guarantees whenever you're dealing with live animals; a dog can have two parents with good or excellent hips that still produce a dysplastic pup. Healthy parents can throw epileptic pups. That being said - the overall philosophy of these Boards is to be greatly commended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted January 14, 2016 Report Share Posted January 14, 2016 Welcome! Seconding what Lynn said. There are some very responsible people in that area who occasionally produce a litter when they want a pup for themselves. Have you considered rescue? Mid-Atlantic Border Collie Rescue in Chestertown MD is excellent and so is Blue Ridge BCR in Virginia. With a rescue, you have a really good opportunity to know just what you are getting and avoid the gamble (which is generally reduced when buying from a responsible bredder) that is involved in buying a puppy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shine On Posted January 14, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2016 Thank you, I was considering branchwater since they seem to be one of the few close to me. I am not against a rescue, but the main reason I want a puppy is so it can be raised with my children. Granted, I know I could spend thousands on a very nice pup, and it could still be the fluke of the litter health-wise. I will check into the rescues to see what they have. So, have not heard anything bad about J-tail? I am mainly wanting an active healthy pet, so keep that in mind. Thanks for the replies! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcv-border Posted January 14, 2016 Report Share Posted January 14, 2016 I second checking out the rescue route. If you want a puppy, quite frequently you will find 'pups' that are less than a year old. Still enough of a puppy, but old enough to really know what you are getting and for them to have lost some of that 'puppy brain' that can be so draining, but fun, to deal with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcv-border Posted January 14, 2016 Report Share Posted January 14, 2016 . I am not against a rescue, but the main reason I want a puppy is so it can be raised with my children. Granted, I know I could spend thousands on a very nice pup, and it could still be the fluke of the litter health-wise. I will check into the rescues to see what they have. Raised with children - an even stronger argument IMHO to look at a rescue dog/older puppy. You will have a MUCH better idea how it interacts with children. Personally, with children, I would be more concerned about the reactivity of a dog - sometimes hard to gauge with a small pup which can become reactive (not always though) as it matures. It all depends on how it is raised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waffles Posted January 14, 2016 Report Share Posted January 14, 2016 J-tail is not going to be recommended here. If you have not already read the Read This First at the top of the boards, please do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Beer Posted January 14, 2016 Report Share Posted January 14, 2016 And, if you go the rescue route, you may find a dog who was raised with children and did well with them. One of mine was raised with children, and he is just the most phenomenal dog with children that I know. He was not given up for that reason - the people who originally got him really didn't know what they were getting into with a Border Collie puppy and they found they didn't know how to deal with him when he became an adolescent. But he is just wonderful with kids. When our nieces and nephews come over, he just plays and plays and plays with them. So, it is possible that you can find a dog like that. He was 10 months old when we adopted him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TxMom Posted January 14, 2016 Report Share Posted January 14, 2016 I've got young kids (3, 5 and 7) and a puppy (6ish months). Honestly, life would probably be easier if we'd gotten an adult as originally planned. The puppy chews on things the kids forget to pick up. (We had a near-tragedy at Christmas when she chewed the hand off of a Luke Skywalker stuffie... but happily, she spat the hand out and I sewed it back on and convinced my son that it's just like when Luke lost his hand in Episode V.) She jumps on them, especially the 3-year-old who will not listen when I tell her not to run and squeal, so those two don't get to be together unless I'm right there. She still requires constant supervision in the house, which means that any time I try to do anything I'm tripping over kids AND a puppy who's tethered to me.I love our puppy; she's a good dog, and in the end I'm confident it will be worth all the trouble. She's ours and I'm glad we have her. But I really don't think I needed a puppy because of the kids. They -- especially the younger ones -- would probably be happier with an adult dog who was a little more settled. They love Livi, but they don't love a lot of the puppy behavior. Not to say you shouldn't get a puppy if you want one, but I wouldn't dismiss a grown dog just because of the kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shine On Posted January 14, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2016 Good points, everyone! The only reason an older dog scares me is because a family member had an adult dog that was good with children. However she was not raised with the kids, and in the long run she thought she was more dominant over the kids and it was just not a pleasant experience. Granted, she was not a border collie and I guess I could go meet with the dogs beforehand to see how they interact with my kids. But with a puppy and solid training, it's like a clean slate. Yet I understand the argument of genetics playing a part in the behavior and you don't know exactly how they will be until they are past puppy hood. I am up for the challenge of the puppy raising. I was 7 months pregnant when I got our dog, Banjo, and had our first son as well (two years old at the time.) I know some luck played into it too cause he loves to please! Maybe I will look into a rescue now and puppy a year or so down the road. Our family loves border collies! Best, smartest dogs :-) I will re-read the rules/posts here. Sorry, are you all not allowed to suggest certain breeders or you just don't recommend some? Thanks all for your help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shine On Posted January 14, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2016 Oh and Banjo was a 13 week old pup when we got him I need to figure out how to post a pic of him on here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shine On Posted January 14, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2016 I read the "read this first" thoroughly now and understand completely! Thanks Basically (if I decide to go the puppy route) I want a breeder local to me that really works with their dogs to their full potential. Any suggestions for that near the Baltimore area? I have browsed through the rescues, many are not suitable for my family at the moment but I will keep my eye on the pages. I will probably call them later today too. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maralynn Posted January 14, 2016 Report Share Posted January 14, 2016 Well, J Tail just breeds for color and doesn't do anything with their dogs. They're health tested, but the price tag is astounding for not proving their dogs in anything. They're just making puppies without any idea of their potential. Culleymont/Cheryl Williams is in Pennsylvania I believe. I'd absolutely check them out. http://www.jaggerwilliamsbordercollies.com/index.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maralynn Posted January 14, 2016 Report Share Posted January 14, 2016 Also with rescue, talk to them, tell them what you're looking for, fill out an application to have on file. Then you'd be set to adopt when the right dog comes along. Not every dog gets listed/listed promptly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cass C Posted January 14, 2016 Report Share Posted January 14, 2016 This board only supports working breeders, regardless of what you want your dog for. Any breeders accociated with the AKC are strongly recommend against. That is not to say we will hate you if you already have AKC dogs, but it will be an uphill battle if you insist on getting an AKC dog even after we explain why you should only get working dogs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcv-border Posted January 14, 2016 Report Share Posted January 14, 2016 Also with rescue, talk to them, tell them what you're looking for, fill out an application to have on file. Then you'd be set to adopt when the right dog comes along. Not every dog gets listed/listed promptly. Definitely! Pre-approval can be very valuable when working with a rescue. Just in the past month, the rescue group I volunteer for (BRBCR) has adopted out at least 3, maybe 4 dogs, without the dog even appearing on the website. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcv-border Posted January 14, 2016 Report Share Posted January 14, 2016 Good points, everyone! The only reason an older dog scares me is because a family member had an adult dog that was good with children. However she was not raised with the kids, and in the long run she thought she was more dominant over the kids and it was just not a pleasant experience. Personally, if I heard this story, I would need to know much, much more about the training of the dog, the interactions between dog and children, daily management, etc. My spidey senses tell me that there is much more to the story than the dog feeling 'dominant' over kids. (neither do I believe in the dominance theory which is an incorrect theory based on some bad science in the past.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TxMom Posted January 14, 2016 Report Share Posted January 14, 2016 Definitely! Pre-approval can be very valuable when working with a rescue. Just in the past month, the rescue group I volunteer for (BRBCR) has adopted out at least 3, maybe 4 dogs, without the dog even appearing on the website. Ours was never on the website... neither was her brother, who was adopted out around the same time. If we hadn't applied and already been talking and meeting dogs, we'd never had ended up with her. For that matter, I probably wouldn't have asked about her -- it was the adoption coordinator who said she'd be perfect for us. And she really is the perfect dog for us. Just the right temperament. Not her fault she's younger than we were looking for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shine On Posted January 14, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2016 Thank you, all! Yes, that's what's holding me back from J-tail. The dogs and pups look nice BUT for the amount he wants I'd like to see some actual performance data. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cass C Posted January 14, 2016 Report Share Posted January 14, 2016 I don't think there is any reason to completely rule out a shelter/rescue dog, they do get puppies in often (the gold dog in my profile picture was a shelter puppy who just sort of fell into my lap when I wasn't even looking). You can also contact a few local rescues and tell them exactly what you are looking for, and they will keep an eye out for something matching your request. Also don't rule out an older dog. My grandma got a 1-2 year old poodle/mix who had been a stray, and then stayed in another shelter for 5 months, before being transferred to our shelter where my grandma found her. So she didn't even have it as easy as some of the dog that are turned into the shelter and she is the most relaxed dog I have ever met. 5 years later and still nothing gets to that dog, be it noise, commotion, or even my hyper dogs bouncing around. A good rescue will be able to match you with a dog or puppy to best fit your lifestyle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted January 14, 2016 Report Share Posted January 14, 2016 There are a couple of border collie x GSD mixes (known cross) in BRBCR, not yet listed because they are still too young. I believe several more purebreds are coming into rescue soon. I believe there were a couple of older pups (less than 6 months?) also in the rescue, but not sure if they've been spoken for. That said, there are breeders of good working dogs in MD and PA. Cheryl and Dick Williams have already been mentioned. If you PM me, I can give you a list of folks who breed occasionally in MD and surrounding states (for those who are curious, I am not listing here simply because they are people who train and trial but don't have regular litters). J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LauraV Posted January 14, 2016 Report Share Posted January 14, 2016 I was looking for a border collie puppy and ended up rescuing a 1 year old border collie mix. I'm so happy I skipped the puppy stage with this one. Hopefully you find what you are looking for! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentleLake Posted January 14, 2016 Report Share Posted January 14, 2016 I looked up J-Tail and was set against them even before reading all of the introductory pgh. ACK dogs? Not a breeder to be endorsed here, right there. And WOW! $1500 for a puppy that you can't breed? Not that I encourage random breeding, but that's a ton of money to pay to be told what you can and can't do with the dog. What if it turned out to win the Nationals some day? Not likely, I agree, but it'd be nice to have the option to keep it in the gene pool if it did. And Branchwater? Ugh and double ugh! I only looked at a few of the pedigrees but saw some recent dogs from a miller of ill renown who was kicked out of the ABCA. Need I say more? Yeah, stay away from both of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alchemist Posted January 14, 2016 Report Share Posted January 14, 2016 There *aren't* any breeders (by which I mean people who breed more than one litter each year) of Border collies in Maryland I'd recommend. There are quite a few people who occasionally (every few years) will breed a litter because they want a pup out of the cross. Best way to find out about them is to go to sheepdog trials and chat with handlers whose dogs you admire. I live in Maryland, and have three working-bred Border collies. One was whelped in Virginia, one in Michigan, and one in Idaho. That I flew to Idaho to get the third says something about how scarce well-bred Border collie litters in Maryland are. If you go the working Border collie route, please abandon any notion that you'll wander in and get your pick of a litter of 8-week-old pups. Many will be bespoken before they're on the ground. A good breeder will work hard to match your needs with the temperaments of each pup. Personally, with young kids, I'd go the rescue route. As others have said, you'll have a MUCH better idea as to what you're getting. If you pursue this option, I strongly recommend Blue Ridge Border Collie Rescue over Mid-Atlantic. Gentle Lake, you probably didn't pick up on the Branchwater sire (oh, but such a pretty lilac color!) from a kennel in CA that's notorious for aggression towards people... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alchemist Posted January 14, 2016 Report Share Posted January 14, 2016 Oh, and "thousands for a very nice pup"??? That's a pretty big red flag. Well-bred working Border collies rarely sell for more than something like $800. Their breeders won't charge more for male vs female, and won't charge more for fancy colors, either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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