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Will C

Obedience Training and Trials Michigan

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Can anyone give me some names of some trainers in Michigan? I live in Fenton and would like to find someone close to me.

 

Also, I have some questions. I have heard that remote collars are good. I have heard that they're bad. Same with choke collars. Can someone give me some insight as to how you one is suppose to know how to train their dog if the trainers can't even come close to agreeing.

 

Help would be greatly appreciated.

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I'm not keen on either. Kel loses the fur around her neck when I tried a choker, so we haven't used it since.

 

As for remotes... personal preference says most definately not. From what I understand, they can lower the dogs immune system and crush their spirit. The potential for misuse is too great for me. I also think they could hinder the bond between you and your dog. And they seem, well, just...lazy.

 

One collar I'm considering trying is that combination of chain and nylon. Has anyone one used these at all?

 

'Fraid I don't know any trainers in MI though. I just moved to Kalamazoo 6 months ago

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Really good trainers do use shock collars.

They can easily train without them.

 

Anyone that uses a shock collar is not a good trainer.

 

Although an oxymoron, the only people who would even have good enough timing to use a shock collar are the good trainers who refuse to use one.

 

Good trainers do agree.....no shock collars. Run from trainers that use them.

 

One thing that aggravates me is when they are referred to as "remotes" to make them sound more palatable.

 

A shock collar in anyone's hands is not good. A shock collar in a beginner's hands that has no timing is lethal for the dog.

 

Although I do not do obedience or flyball, I believe that since good handlers can control their dog on sheep at 600 ft without a shock collar, there is no reason to need them in obedience.

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Originally posted by TotallyTerry:

One thing that aggravates me is when they are referred to as "remotes" to make them sound more palatable.

I guess I misunderstood. The information doesn't mention about shock. I read some information on Tritronics web page make it sound that it is by vibration and sound. Maybe I am missing something in the information. I didn't have a clue that the remotes used shock. Why can't they come up with just a vibrating against the neck to get their attention? That is all I am having trouble with is getting Tucker's attention.

 

I must admit that it was better today on healing by finally getting him to realize that I was holding a treat down by him so that his head would turn in some. Before he just sniffed the ground and look everywhere but at me.

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I believe that there *are* collars that simply vibrate and do not stimulate muscle contractions (what "shock" or "e-collars" do). They use them on deaf dogs, as I understand it. Maybe someone else knows about that?

 

Can someone give me some insight as to how you one is suppose to know how to train their dog if the trainers can't even come close to agreeing.
Ah, but there is the eternal question. One of my favorite quotes is "To a man with a hammer, the whole world looks like a nail.". This is why I think that if you're new at the dog training thing, it's better to start with more benign training aids and techniques, so as to reduce your risk of making the kinds of mistakes that will cause more harm than good. For a beginner, I like clicker training because it teaches you a lot about timing and reinforcement theory, and I like the lure and reward method because it teaches a lot about using motivational methods to induce the behavior that you want.

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Tessa,

 

I know nothing about hunters and their bird dogs.

 

But this is a border collie board and we are talking about border collies. Border collies need to be able to think and respond readily when working livestock. An animal that is getting zapped frequently is probably not mentally capable of doing either.

 

You did state that "if properly used", the shock collar is a useful tool. How many beginners know when to properly zap a bird dog?

Just curious.

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Originally posted by TotallyTerry:

You did state that "if properly used", the shock collar is a useful tool. How many beginners know when to properly zap a bird dog?

Just curious.

Coming from the Retriever world, I can promise you I saw plenty of misused E-collars by professionals and novices (and trainers trying for a "quick fix"). I saw plenty of dogs who were ruined by e-collars, or cast aside because they couldn't "take the pressure". For any kind of working dog, the constant underlying fear of pain does nothing but muddy the waters, IMO.

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I've used the chain/nylon collar. It did not seem to mess up the fur. When using it you do need to be aware of the sensitivity of your dog so you do not over correct. For mine just the rattle of the chain was enough to remind her to pay attention.

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Sorry, can't helpyou with trainers in MI but you may be able to find someone through the Association of Pet Dog Trainers: APDT--Choose a Trainer

 

As far as collars go, you shouldn't need any kind of shock collar for Obedience. Choke collars can do a lot of damage to the dog, especially if you are a beginner and don't know how to use it correctly to communicate but instead use it as positive punishment.

 

Here are a couple of sites with some thoughtful information on collar alternatives for training:

http://www.dogproblems.com/pinchcollar.htm

Suzzanne Clothier--Prong Collar

 

Both of these sites have lots of other good information on training for obedience, whether you just want good manners or to compete in one of the Obedience venues.

 

Deanna in OR

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My favorite obedience trainer in Michigan is Adele Yunck, located just south of Ann Arbor, MI. She owns the Northfield Dog Training facility and I believe she has a website, so just google it and you will find her. She has produced top obedience competitiors in Michigan and uses mostly positive methods of training. She also runs agility training at her facility.

 

HTH,

 

Wendy V

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